William Shatner just said it best again:
And when the Next Gen came out; there was tons of hate because it ‘wasn’t Star Trek’ and the cast probably was in fear from the fans. Again when the series with Bakula came out, it too was panned by the fans because it ‘wasn’t Star Trek.’ Star Trek is different for everyone.”
So, to all the outspoken trolls and haters out there, a huge Fuck You for sabotaging the entire franchise.
Funny how we can influence a TV show into being canceled because it deals with "icky wokeness" but can't do anything about the actual icky child fucker.
What's crazy is I can't even pinpoint what they even mean by the wokeness? It's really not overbearing, nor anymore than SNW or other TV shows. Maybe I'm just in a West Coast echo chamber
The ones who aren't being dishonest pieces of shit feeding into divisivism are usually complaining about the lack of quality of the writing and/or the overt nature of 'leftist' messaging. Meaning anything remotely progressive like gay people existing or touchy-feely things coming from guys in a manner where those things are not directly relevant to the plot or don't actually change anything end up feeling forced, and thusly feel like they're sprinkled in just to "be progressive".
Often times there is some credibility to the complaints of the quality of writing, it's just the 'woke' thing that triggered them to think about why the thing on screen is happening. Instead of noticing that it's a general ham-fisted nature to the writing (which Trek basically always has in quite a few episodes of all series), they stupidly blame 'woke'.
That is the power of the brainwashing coming from the dishonest propagandists like Ben Shapiro and their ilk: Legitimate shortcomings become things caused by "the other", instead of basic variability of quality.
IMO, the bigger problem with Trek is Hollywood dumbasses like Kurtzman like pushing messaging more than writing good stories to challenge the alternate POV, which plays right into the shitty propagandists' hands.
There are plenty of old episodes that would embarass modern Trek with being progressive since they didn't make it an overt declaration (tell the audience), but showed why the bigoted view was bad. Whereas new Trek loves to just... declare the progressive view as good, and then go on to Main Character the problem away: Poor writing even when you agree with the message.
Sure, there are also quite a few hamfisted episodes of old Trek, but I'd much rather take 24 episode seasons smattered with ham than 10 episodes with an overarching story that loves to simply declare itself superior. It's so much easier to ignore the poorly written episodes in old Trek when there is so much to take in, especially when there are some gems to find.
IMO, the overproduction is also hurting a lot of newer IPs even beyond being a huge cost. It sets the expectations higher. It's so much easier to gloss over a 6/10 in writing which is inevitable in a long running series no matter the message, when the visuals and the rest aren't a 10/10 in every scene. If the episodes weren't insanely expensive, long productions, they'd be able to put out a lot more episodes to drown out the bad ones. Instead, they give us 10, in a season that's almost always a bit rocky to begin with in every series.
I think setting expectation is one reason why Lower Decks gets so much love. It's "just a cartoon", so when the writing nails a mature topic, it feels like a proper treat.
The reason people like lower deck so much is because it was obviously written by an actual Star Trek fan rather than someone trying to write generic science fiction and then slap a Star Trek aesthetic on top. Which was what discovery was like in the early days.
Fully agreed there! They also do mature topics better than many humor focused cartoons. At least more regularly.
I disagree that cartoons set lower expectations. I expected a lot from Lower Decks and that expectation was well satisfied. One thing LDS does benefit from is the 22 minute runtime. 45 minute episodes are too long.
Cartoons don't set lower expectations. They naturally come with a different set of expectations that happens to have more leeway with writing. Especially in comedies vs overproduced "serious" shows.
There are plenty of old episodes that would embarass modern Trek with being progressive since they didn’t make it an overt declaration (tell the audience), but showed why the bigoted view was bad. Whereas new Trek loves to just… declare the progressive view as good
Are you for real?
Whereas new Trek loves to just… declare the progressive view as good
can you cite example, not saying you're wrong, but I always feel modern trek does representation without any clear messaging/opinion at all. Its a case of we "have these things" but fear actually using the things in a morality play. I'd be happier with modern trek if it actually took a proper side
I mean, it ain't exactly The Honeymooners or Dukes of Hazzard, is it? That's the standard that we're measuring "woke" against these days!
If anything, Discovery was way more "woke".
Academy is honestly less "woke" than Discovery, or even SNW.
Basically though, these jokers HATE the gay Klingon.
The fact that this is happening now and not at the end of season 2 implies studio shenaniganary and not listening to some dumb chuds.
Why would they sabotage viewership for season 2 instead of canceling it outright? Or at a minimum just dump the rest of it now?
My gut says it’s virtue signaling by management to the Ellison who’s gonna run the place in the not too distant future. Canceling the “woke” trek sounds like something sufficiently sycophantic for a Hollywood exec.
The worst part is now the chuds are taking a victory lap.
More like "vice signaling."
Why would they sabotage viewership for season 2 instead of canceling it outright? Or at a minimum just dump the rest of it now?
They can't dump season 2 right now because it only finished filming a month ago and there's a lot to be done after that.
Okay. Still doesn’t explain why they’d announce this now.
Just a guess, but maybe because S02 finished production and now would be the time to begin production on S03 including signing contracts with the cast and crew. If they didn't announce it, then all of those people out of work would sure as hell shout it from the rooftops.
Its been standard practice to blame online communities for bad numbers or office politics for most of the last decade.
Since the news broke that Academy was cancelled, I've seen a number of comments implying that people who posted negatively about it on Lemmy are in some way responsible for its cancellation. That's a ridiculous notion. Nobody with the power to make that decision gives a single shit about what goes on here, nor are they even aware of our existence. I get that you're frustrated, but your ire is misdirected.
Ha! Blaming people on Reddit is barely believable. Maybe an exec is a big Reddit fan, or it gets back to the board because the social media pr team keeps tabs on Reddit to make sure AMAs aren't being given in problematic fora.
But Lemmy? Delusion.
I don't dislike it because it's woke. I dislike it because it's a really bad show.
Which means your opinion on whether or not it should continue is irrelevant.
It literally isn't a show for you.
I hope those individuals whom latch onto what Shatner says, change their attitude.
He would be far more correct in the general sense if it were only bigots and idiots complaining that were never going to be fans of a more intellectual show anyways.
New Trek has had lots of criticism from actual, existing Trek fans that want to see the IP flourish into another 100+ episode series. Of course the usual bigots and propagandists also hated on it, but they were always going to! To thusly pretend there are zero honest fans who didn't like Discovery or Picard, etc, is to completely ignore valid critique.
Star Trek might be different for everyone, but there are many core throughlines and principles that were heavily changed for New Trek. That doesn't inherently make New Trek bad by itself, but it also means the old fans aren't just whining to whine.
Maybe they actually have some good points when they're comparing things that are getting dropped one after the other, not even approaching episode counts that the original hit with three seasons, to the rest of the older series which all have significantly more than that.
Yes, they all had silly episodes, so why did these older things with plenty of sillyness garner so many fans? It's foolish to pretend it's all bigots and idiots simply saying, "it's different!".
So, to all the outspoken trolls and haters out there, a huge Fuck You for sabotaging the entire franchise.
Surely it was the writers who sabotaged the show by producing this instead of literally anything else.
The franchise died because of poor ratings, not poor reviews.
Do you think The Bachelor stayed on air for years because of critical acclaim?
Maybe if anyone involved during the Kurtzman era, actually watched the shows and movies first, and had good writing skills things would have gone different. This show is insulting to Start Trek.
You want to say fuck you to somebody, say to the people who greenlit this crap. Kurtzman should have been removed a long time ago. Stop throwing a tantrum.
Im sad, there was such heart and potential in this generation of Star Trek.
Fuck the haters.
Its weird Everytime i go back to reddit it pushes more and more hateful subs on me I think they just keep adding underscores or something.
Is it ending? That makes me sad. These greedy companies make me sad.
I've been watching them, and most are pretty bad... I don't hate them, but like, I get it. Great production value, but the stories are weak and rather trite.
Sorry, you are not allowed to have that opinion.
Oh come on it's not that people hate new Star Trek shows it's that they hate badly written Star Trek shows. There's plenty of examples of Star Trek shows that people love.
Oh come on it's not that people hate new Star Trek shows
.....YES, yes it is?
Not just because they're new though. But because they're badly written.
Good thing people stuck with TNG season one despite rehashes like ‘The Naked Now’, offensive episodes like ‘Code of Honor’ and most of a season of sub par offerings.
At least he weren't trying to show teenage drama down my throat.
What I want to know is what market research they did to come to the conclusion that this would be positively received, who was the show aimed at, because it certainly isn't Star Trek fans.
No one was “shoving anything down your throat.”
You don’t need to watch.
You may have been the key 15-34 year old demographic that advertisers and marketers target back in the 1990s. If so, you are not the key demographic now. Why do you think others should be paying for your preferences?
Code of Honour also sounds like it was written for TOS and just recycled. I think a lot of TNG season 1 was like that because they didn’t have characters defined well enough to write for yet.
Plot-driven sci-fi has always been quite bad TV. People need characters to identify with and follow. Season 1 TNG was plagued with plot-driven shows.
Much better ideas for series have been suggested by those that enjoy Star Trek, and they have been ignored.
Star Date Beverly Hills 90210 wasn't what we asked for.
Even when a series has good characters and interesting ideas, it still needs compelling plots and competent script writing.
Personally I've watched every episode of every other Star Trek Series, even the weaker ones. I've given up on Academy. I'm just really not interested 😕🖖
There's so much stuff that they could have gone with and then instead they decided to go with disaster movie on a galactic scale. Ugh.
I know an STA hater. She only watched the first half of episode 1, and assumed the rest of the show would be equally grimdark and "federation bad".
I was also an STA hater after the first half of episode 1, but then I watched the second half. Then I watched the other episodes. But some people don't have that kind of patience.
I think people don't like the direction that they're taking Star Trek in general. It was one of the few science fiction shows which was actually hopeful about the future, but the writers have decided that they can't think of creative ways to go in that direction so they're going to blow everything up.
It wouldn't be so bad if it made some kind of logical sense, but they just had everything destroyed for hand wavy reasons without any basis in canon.
I actually really liked the first few episodes. Not amazing, but solid.
It's the ones that come after that were a bit disappointing.
This sucks. I mean its not my favorite Trek but it definitely was Trek. It just needed a season or two to get footing. The 'wokeness' is just bullshit. They have 1 gay character and a very side character boyfriend. Literally the rest is jocks and pretty girls besides my girl Sam the autism stand in (fucking love her). Cant help but feel this is orchestrated. I mean Riker fucked a nonbinary alien and all those chuds love Riker('s image).
And Data allowed their child to choose their own gender, and all those chuds love Data as well.
I'll just rewatch TNG.
What a shame, it was just getting good.
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