809
Red line
(lemmy.world)
How can anyone defend this?
Well, you see, their enemies are brown.
With fascist ideas
What's a Nukhba?
The israeli term for Palestinian since october.
Originally it meant elite Hamas forces which participated in the attack. But israel just calls every Palestinian they kidnap or kill a 'Nukhba fighter". Easy way to justify any war crime. Everything is Hamas.
Seems the difference between an Isreali prisoner and a Hamas hostage is literally just the amount of paperwork generated.
If they were such elite Hamas soldiers, they wouldn’t release 50% of them back into civilian populations.
If they run, they are Hamas. If they don't run, they are well trained Hamas.
😬
members of the military directed pepper spray at the military police who came to detain the soldiers.
Holy shit! It's one thing when fascist politicians and their other brainwashed supporters resist justice, but when soldiers attack soldiers, "potential civil war" isn't even hyperbole anymore!
In a country where almost all 18-21 year olds are in the army, you will have shit like that
Swiss here
No you don't
You need to rival people up by starting a mass genocide first. No one wants to have a war in Switzerland anyway, it's too hilly.
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It's almost like universal conscription is a bad idea that negatively affects people!
Swiss here - no it isn't
I'd even argue that it is a reason why switzerland is such a stable country.
I am lying in a ditch next to a Person that has the absolute opposite of my political Ideas and job and.... you get the Idea
But instead of seeing them as political opponents or whatever, I am lying in a ditch in the strongest rain. That welds together and fosters unity.
Yeah, it's easy to advocate for conscription in an alpine country that's famously neutral and hasn't been known to commit atrocities unrelated to banking.
I've participated in various activities with people who don't share my beliefs and always will and nobody had to force me to go larping in bad weather or murder and torture civilians to accomplish that.
Besides, as far as fostering unity goes, there ARE limits.
I guess I could hang with a right-libertarian as long as we don't discuss politics and their behavior isn't as awful as their politics. We couldn't be close friends, but we could probably hang out. Hell, I probably do already without knowing it.
I don't want to have anything to do with murderers, torturers and fascists, though, no matter what. Forced conscription would take my choice in that matter from me in most countries.
And people wonder why society is becoming more toxic
A swiss advocating for universal conscription is rich. Is that really something you want? You want to see the US military expanded by orders of magnitude? China? India and Pakistan? You think that ends well for the world, and doesn't just provoke more armed conflict and more death? Forced conscription is just another form of violence from the ruling class to control the regular people. It's absolutely insane to say that it would be a net good for society, or even to say that all political ideals should be tolerated. Why should I tolerate someone that advocates for the extermination of people like me, or anyone, for that matter? I can respect their rights, but I cannot respect their ideas.
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It getting more militarized probably has something to do with it.
On the other hand - who can resist free labor?
Fascists famously can't, so it's very much in character for the regime.
If you don't support the Israeli army raping people you are antisemite
important s/ because people don't even know anymore
Nobody unironically says that
Netenyahu himself defended the actions of the imprisoned soldiers, saying anything can be done to detainees without restrictions because they are "terrorists".
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Where is that video of the Israeli politician saying anything is okay since their enemy are animals?
Edit: oh wait, it is posted below in comic form
ohhh they do do
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I think the only remotely sane person in the room was the one at the end who shouted "there are things you don't do". Albeit they're all advocating for genocide, so none of them are respectable.
In the past Israel got away with everything by simply denying all allegations. That one politician realized they need to keep up the facade. The rest of them do not believe they have to hide their crimes anymore. Now they say out loud what they have meant the past eighty years.
The rest of them do not believe they have to hide their crimes anymore.
The problem is that they might be right. They're effectively just wanting to accelerate the genocide and land taking until they've taken absolutely everything, before public pressure mounts up enough in, mostly america as their cash cow, to shut them down. They have the green light pretty much until the election, since everyone's scared that a major change to the status quo will alienate massive amounts of support for their own base and guarantee an election loss, something that's really only true for republicans I think, since a large part of that voter base is evangelical christian zionist. So they're basically just trying to score as many points as possible before the timer runs out, and deal with whatever comes up afterwards, if anything even does.
They're taking advantage of america's domestic political turmoil and instability, basically, which doesn't seem to show any signs of stopping for me, in terms of larger driving economic factors, unless we maybe get big sweeping FDR style reforms from kamala, which I'm not really thinking will be the case. Which for them makes a slight amount of sense, since they currently are basically just a vassal, a colony, of america, and produce little to export iirc outside of our military industrial complex, and as america collapses further and further, they're going to need to establish a more sustainable base for themselves with their priority obviously being to maintain as much power as possible. which means that they can't become a peaceful country or seek to play nice with their neighbors, which might not work anyways since their country is basically built on blood, same as america.
It seems on the surface like it's just some short term strategy for them, but it's only a short term strategy insofar as fascism itself is a short term strategy, and is a political philosophy incapable of actually having long term thoughts. But assuming their own political philosophy, all of what they're doing makes sense. Which is precisely why a denial by the US right now and an increase in pressure would be so effective at curtailing them, if only we had someone with the cajohnes and political power to step up and do so.
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Justice Minister Yariv Levin said he was “shocked to see harsh pictures of soldiers being arrested”, according to Haaretz.
Khaled Mahajna, a lawyer with the Commission of Detainees and Ex-Detainees Affairs, shared the abuse recounted by two Palestinian detainees. One of them, a journalist, described witnessing rapes of detainees from Gaza inside the Sde Teiman facility, which has been compared to Guantanamo prison.
Another detainee was stripped naked, electrocuted and subjected to sexual abuse, Mahajna said.
“One Palestinian inmate died with a ruptured spleen and broken ribs after being beaten by Israeli prison guards. Another met an excruciating end because a chronic condition went untreated. A third screamed for help for hours before dying,” the newspaper said.
Stop being so harsh guys, jeez! I'm guessing they wouldn't be shocked to see "harsh" pictures of abused Palestinians.
Do that many people in Israel really support this?
I guess Lemmy doesn't have a big enough Israeli community to answer that, but I have a hard time picturing an analogue for this in other countries.
I would think they detest the act, but they would argue it wasn't rape because legally only a citizen can be raped and that the victims were traumatized repeatedly weren't citizens.
And they will be angry at you for making them think about it.
They spent years dehumanizing palestinians. They probably don't see them as human anymore, let alone citizens
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As the conversation in the Knesset I've linked below proves, it's not a fringe opinion in israel.
Israeli here.
There is enough bad blood between us and the Palestinians for many people to approve the rape, and after 7.10 they feel confident enough to vocally support it. At least - the mob on the street and in social media. The more subtle right-wingers (as you may have guessed - this became a partisan thing) don't condone the rape itself - but they have a few "but"s:
- They say that the soldiers are heroes that operate in harsh conditions, and we should be more forgiving toward such "venting".
- They say that we should be more skeptic toward the testimonies of the released Palestinians prisoners, and should not start investigations based on their complains.
- They say that the arrest of the soldiers could have been done in a more peaceful and gentle way. (personal opinion - this argument is the only one that has some merit to it. Doesn't justify the rampage though)
- The rampage against the arrest is a legitimate democratic protest, and the establishment is only handling it with extreme prejudice because it's a right-wing thing.
Abu Ghraib comes to mind. War does horrific things to people's minds.
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Update: Rape rioters won.
it becomes the first nation on earth to avoid civil war by allowing its military to rape prisoners
If this is true, it is only because usually the rapists got their way before enough people heard about it for it to become a civil war. Soldiers threatening mutiny unless they were allowed to rape people is a pretty common phenomenon in war.
Incidents like this almost certainly took place during the US American occupation of Okinawa, there just weren't smartphones to relay the information to the general public, other soldiers, and the government so they could take positions. Maybe the prisoners will be tried at a later date, like the US did with some rapists in the US armed forces.
Ok, just to answer this propaganda piece for future readers: Israel is now going through a faschist overtake. Israel's faschist government's actions are being objected by most Israelis, most past Israely politician 's from past MP's to past PM's. Most Israeli elites and most people involved in homeland security. There are active protests against the government and people are being arrested for it. Hope Democracy will win, you may continue the propanda now
The amount of protesters against the government is a tiny minority. Most of them do not even care about Palestinians but want the hostages back and their economy out of shambles.
Israel is an Apartheid not a democracy. The ICJ has recently ruled so.
I've heard worse excuses for a civil war...
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this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2024
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