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submitted 8 months ago by vividspecter@lemm.ee to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world
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[-] splonglo@lemmy.world 47 points 8 months ago

I honestly think conservative media just tries to start as much shit as possible so they have something to talk about.

At this point they probably start out by picking some slightly complex idea that's objectively correct and then work backwards to find a way to disagree with it.

[-] KnowledgeableNip@leminal.space 19 points 8 months ago

If they can distract you, they can take more from you.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

If they make you angry you keep watching.

And it's not just conservative media.

[-] loutr@sh.itjust.works 12 points 8 months ago

The issue is that these changes are beneficial to society but detrimental to them personally. So they try to rationalize their stance without sounding like selfish assholes.

[-] splonglo@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

I think it's more that the right wing media tries to identify grievances and then provides rationalizations for them. I don't think this is an organic, ground-up process.

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[-] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 45 points 8 months ago

The Heartland Institute, a conservative think tank, argues that the costs of such green initiatives outweigh their benefits, suggesting that they impose unnecessary economic burdens (Heartland Institute, 2017).

Guess some people see everything in a cost-profit margin only.

[-] Rozauhtuno 38 points 8 months ago

Guess some people see everything in a cost-profit margin only.

Especially when it's convenient. I'm sure they would happily look the other way if you showed them the economic burdens of having a car-centric society.

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[-] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 7 points 8 months ago

Anything the Heartland Institute publishes should never be treated as anything but toilet paper.

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[-] kautau@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

See Slavery (3500 BC)

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 44 points 8 months ago

There should be zero delivery trucks clogging city streets. Zero.

Good luck with that. And the bike-riding population will do all their shopping far outside the city, where shops still survive? A cargo bike is nice for personal shopping, for deliviering letters or small packets, but you won't be able to fill the shelves of a supermarket this way. And whoever thinks about using freight trams for this, sit down and actually think this idea through for a change.

[-] Nemo@midwest.social 72 points 8 months ago

Delivery trucks are fine. They don't contribute to sprawl, are driven by professional drivers, and don't need parking lots.

It's personal automobiles that are the problem.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 16 points 8 months ago

Sure, if you focus on the "zero" part of the phrase you can score a cheap point. Now focus on the "trucks" and the "clogging" part. A van can stock up a small to medium store just fine, and a walkable neighborhood doesn't need big box stores to begin with (and small business ownership is a plus for economic conservatives too). And with fewer cars carting individuals around, delivery vans can move in and out much more efficiently without clogging up anything.

[-] RagingHungryPanda@lemm.ee 14 points 8 months ago

If I had a dime for every time somebody made this reply, I’d have a lot of dimes.

Nobody has ever said that. What people are saying is that the private automobile is the worst way to move masses of people in cities. They command ungodly amounts of space, make everything more expensive thereby, and aren’t even good at moving masses of people.

You want to increase the capacity of your road? You can:

  • spend millions adding lanes and possibly destroying houses
  • turn a lane into a dedicated bus lane
  • turn a lane into a bike lane
  • hell, pedestrian areas have higher people capacities than car lanes
[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Yes, you are right. You are talking of moving people inside cities. I am talking about a) getting in and out of the city and b) moving goods into and out of cities. None of the usual demands in this group ever even starts to address this.

[-] ebc@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago

What usually works better for moving people in and out of cities is park-n-ride setups where you setup a giant parking lot in the suburbs next to a metro station. People can just ditch their car outside the city and proceed using public transit. I often do this in Montreal, for example.

For goods, it's a similar setup but with big trucks transferring cargo to smaller trucks; this is already pretty common.

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[-] Ithral 9 points 8 months ago

So, why do we need a supermarket? Is there any reason a supermarket couldn't be replaced with it's contingent parts? A butcher, a veggie shop, a convenience food shop, a pharmacy, a bakery, and a condiments shop?

I don't see why they have to be stapled together when separate works just fine. All of which could fairly practically be stocked individually by small light duty trucks, or even a bike with a decently sized trailer.

I also don't see why even if you staple everything together, a cargo tram wouldn't work. Have two, a passenger tram that works one route, and a cargo line that runs by the loading bays of local stores. They can be switched on and off the overarching infrastructure without interfering with each other.

It would be a paradigm shift for the US, but I fail to see how it would be an unworkable one.

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 10 points 8 months ago

How do you think any of those are getting goods? If you ban trucks you'll just get cargo vans and then lots of smaller cars. Or they'll go out of business and people will complain you can't live in the city and move to suburbia. Again.

[-] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 4 points 8 months ago

Ooh, how was that called again, proxy-arguments? They were answered 10 years ago already.

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[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Many smaller businesses could be served just fine with cargo bikes. And once every inch of free space is no longer clogged up by parking cars, it'll be easy to assign loading zones for bigger vehicles that supply supermarkets and the like. Now make those electric and everything becomes much quieter and less polluted. Then people will actually enjoy coming to the city centre again so business there can thrive.

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[-] drosophila 44 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Man I am so tired of the endless parade of articles with the premise "How could conservatives possibly think this?? Surely if we just take the time to carefully understand their reasoning we can blah blah blah...."

Here I'll answer the the "why" right now:
A) Most US conservatives live in suburbs and rural areas and generally hate and fear inner cities and the people who live there. They also generally hate and fear environmentalism. They also greatly resent the idea that the USA isn't the best country on earth at literally everything. They're also violently homophobic and have such deeply toxic ideas of masculinity that they consider it to be weak and "gay" to drive a smaller vehicle.

So when an urbanism advocate says they want people to give up their lifted truck to live in a city and ride a bicycle so the US can be more like Europe and East Asia to help the environment how in the world do you expect them to react in any other way?

B) This is a population that's addicted to hate, fear and opposition like a drug, and conservative politicians and news orgs are the dealers. They need to periodically find something new to tantrum about. If there is no reason to hate something then a reason will be created. This was the case with LED lightbulbs, with COVID, with Romneycare, and so on and on and on. The 15 minute city conspiracy theories are not some sort of new unprecedented pattern of behavior.

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[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 38 points 8 months ago
  1. New thing goes against capitalist interests
  2. Propaganda machine manufactures consent via anti-thing news coverage
  3. This works on people who are generally aligned with internalized capitalist assumptions (ex. climate regulation is worse for humanity than allowing market forces to act unimpeded)
  4. People (conservatives) are now generally against thing and will block progress out of fear, even (and especially) if they don't really understand it on a meaningful level
  5. Status-quo is maintained through perpetuation of internalized capitalist assumptions and self-censorship by those aligned with market forces
  6. Profit (for billionaires)
[-] secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world 28 points 8 months ago

A large part of this is about control. E-bikes are affordable, easy to use, and make it easy and cheaper for anyone, even poor people, to get around. The upper classes do not want the lower classes free on any level.

[-] clarinet_estimator@lemm.ee 9 points 8 months ago

I LOVE my e-bike. I just got a tern NBD and I can finally ride on my own with a bike that fits me even when my disability flares up and I am at my most limited.

Now that my bike time has increased dramatically I have noticed aggression towards me has also increased. I've had people yell slurs out of their car windows, people rev threateningly behind me when they couldn't pass, people speed around me through intersections, etc. Mostly I've noticed it from class traitors.

In my area especially people tie cars to freedom. Public transit is practically non-existent so kids and teenagers never ride a bus or a train and assume cars are the only way to get around. This seems to be especially strong among the lower and lower-middle classes, where people struggle to get and keep their cars, and seem to have an unhealthy emotional attachment to them.

If only there were a way to allow bikes on roads without directly impeding car traffic...

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 months ago

My country has the most ridiculous ebike rules. Speeds are limited, and it needs to function as a bike at all times.... Among others.

This means even if you have one of those moped style ebikes, you have to unnecessarily carry around pedals (which would be impractical and awkward to use), despite having no intention of using them. Cops can just stop you and ask for them. If you can't produce them, then you're getting a ticket.

Stupid.

But I agree, I would liken it to the electric vehicle problems. Though fundamentally different due to several factors, the motivations are the same. People are making money continually from the use of automobiles. Automotive repair and maintenance shops, gas stations (or EV charging stations), all the way to road maintenance and such.... It's a monster of an industry. Nobody wants to stop that gravy train, so they keep fighting against these alternatives that save us lowly "poors" some money. (Only considered to be poor because we don't drive dinosaur burning monster trucks everywhere, so we must be too poor to afford it)

those people want you out there spending your money (aka giving it to them), all the time. This doesn't make them more money, so it's bad.

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Forcing bikes into conflict with cars is of course going to create problems. When I first started riding being on a sidewalk was fine. If that wasn’t available there was usually a sufficiently wide breakdown lane. Only fools and couriers rode in busy urban environments. But with the big push for bikes both municipally and on the basis of personal preference they had to get bikes out of conflict wirh pedestrians on sidewalks, but in built-up urban environments where there isn’t any room to put in proper bike lanes. It’s just a recipe for inflamed tempers. Even on roads that are more suburban, a couple of 18mph bikes blocking a 45 mph road is stupid even if they have a right to be there. But we need more bikes.

[-] Djtecha@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago

This is such a crazy take. You want me going 15mph on the sidewalk?

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 4 points 8 months ago

No, we'd want cyclists going a sensible speed on the sidewalk when the road is too dangerous to cycle on.

Frankly if a road has traffic going >30mph on it, I'm not cycling on it without a dedicated cycle lane, and I don't just mean a thin line painted in the gutter.

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[-] dreugeworst@lemmy.ml 10 points 8 months ago

what is crazy is 45mph stroads in the suburbs

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[-] jerkface@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

No, riding on the sidewalk was never "fine". I know it FEELS more safe, but cyclists are struck more often and killed more often per km of sidewalk than road. And I am never okay with pushing risk off on other people because I'm afraid to accept it myself; even if riding on the sidewalk were safer for me, it is less safe for everyone else, so I don't fucking do it.

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[-] grue@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago
[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 12 points 8 months ago

I live in a rural area, driving is basically a requirement. I've gotten to the point where I've driven for so long that, I don't really want to drive in cities anymore. Too many stupid people. I'd be happy to drive to the city limits, then hop a bus/train/subway/bicycle/scooter/electric riding thing to where I need to go.

I only still have a car because I live in such a remote area and there's literally nowhere nearby to go if you can't drive. It's literally an all day outing if you want to go to the nearest city by any method other than a vehicle.

I've been working from home the last few years and my car only really gets use when I'm called to a site for work, or running errands on weekends. I literally only travel maybe 30 hours of driving a year. This is in contrast to doing more like 60 hours behind the wheel every month before COVID...

IDK what you people are doing in cities, but "bike friendly" shouldn't be a conversation or debate. It should be the rule. However, far be it for me to tell you city folk what to do.

[-] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz 10 points 8 months ago

There have always been jerks. I had things thrown at me from cars and cars swerving at me 40 years ago. Back then they were just random jerks and no part of some us/them mind set.

[-] JohnnyH842@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Apologies as this is off topic, but does anyone have suggestions for how to minimize the extremely intrusive advertising that kind of ruins reading articles like these? 2/3rds of my mobile screen is covered with ads. If it matters I'm on iOS and use Chrome for my default mobile browser. I'm aware of the privacy implications of those choices.

[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

Firefox with uBlock Origin or Rethink DNS on Android cab block ads, the best you can do on iOS is DNS adblocking with something like Adguard

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[-] whoisthedoktor@lemmy.wtf 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Because cyclists are narcissistic people who think the vast minority of people who live in cycling distance of their work and everything else and never get enough from the store or anywhere else that is problematic to carry back home (seriously, do these people ever actually get anything of substance?) think they need entire city blocks completely dedicated to them while giving a big middle finger to people who just want to get to where they're going directly because they CAN ferry any decent amount of goods back and forth.

Not to mention their massive ableism that ignores people who cannot easily walk or ride for any decent distance and denies them direct access to places. Cities already do this to a point where there's no actual free parking anywhere for people, even parking dedicated for them which, in the suburbs, every single parking lot has spots right next to the building for them so it's as easy as possible to access. Most cities rely on garbage paid parking decks and lots far away from most things people need to get to, and even if they have spots for those people, they're still not as accessible as the vast majority of places in suburbs.

Cyclists are basically like vegans and religious people: ignorant, hateful, and annoying. It's not "turning" into a culture war: it is a culture war, with rich, fortunate elitists on one side and the rest of us on the other.

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 7 points 8 months ago

Poe's Law, thou art a bastard.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Yes the "rich, fortunate elitist" trying to commute on a $200 bike instead of a $60,000+ SUV that spews noxious gases.

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[-] CaptainKickass@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Unpopular opinion: because cyclists are entitled assholes 😘

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Bicycles on their own don't turn people into assholes, the same way toaster ovens or flip-flops don't do it, so we have to assume there is some percentage of the population that are assholes no matter what they drive. So before letting them loose in the city, would you rather equip an asshole with a multi-tonne metal murderbox or with a bicycle? The more assholes on bikes the fewer assholes with the means to murder people.

[-] puppy@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Counterpoint: r/idiotsincars (or !idiotsincars@lemmy.world)

Also there's a whole dictionary term created for car drivers called "road rage".

So going by statistics, car drivers are entitled assholes.

[-] NewNewAccount@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

What do they do that makes you consider them entitled?

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this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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Fuck Cars

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