you mentioned phalloplasty, but have you considered a metoidioplasty?
Yes, in the absence of awareness of your situation, I make various assumptions or guesses about the situation. I had considered that your partner never asked you to not transition, but what happens I think is that all the other conversations I've had with people whose situation seemed similar to yours get conflated or generalized, and so I respond as though you are one of the many others.
This is of course a gloss, and that is unfair to you since it makes assumptions that aren't true and aren't relevant.
At some point I think I was aware of the irrelevance of my words to you and your situation - or at least aware of the likelihood of that.
I think this is part of why I said things like if I put myself in the shoes of your partner and imagined even if not asking just knowing I was a reason for someone not transitioning - it's not that I absolutely ignored that possibility, I just didn't know whether it was the most likely possibility.
So yes, assumptions were made - but part of that is because I don't wish to pry or confront, to engage directly on your circumstances is not my goal, instead I just react to what you have disclosed so that I'm being transparent about my own hang-ups, faults, reactions, and so on - partially because I think I want this feedback from you about how to be better, and for that you need to see how I'm thinking in the first place.
You are absolutely right that I made bad assumptions, and I'm sorry for that. The assumption that your partner asked you not to transition was never so "solid" or sure on my end, but I can see how it comes across that I'm thinking it anyway.
I also think there was some conflation of medical vs social transition, but this was again just a generalization or a gloss, handling each separately didn't occur to me as much in that situation, and maybe generally, for various reasons. To be honest, I think even if we split the two and talk about "social transition" and "medical transition", we are still glossing and generalizing. To be honest a lot of this is just about the economy of language and thought, I am happy to be super narrow in my concepts but I think it can be tedious to read, and overly verbose - two things I already skew towards in my writing. Not every trans person has the same "medical transition", for example, so often when I'm talking about "transition" in this context, I'm really talking about the (offensively assumed) "missing component" of HRT, even though the term otherwise implies much more (even HRT itself can designate different things, and depending on the route of administration and the dose, HRT can have dramatically different results for people and mean different things for people).
So, to continue in my thought-transparency (sorry, maybe this is not useful to you), I socially transitioned before I medically transitioned, and my own experiences certainly skew the way I think - particularly what I experienced was that social transition made my life worse in many ways and maybe wasn't the best choice, while HRT was life-saving. Truly, HRT was the most clinically relevant component of the whole transition experience as far as I can tell. Social transition for me was just a way to force myself out of the closet and prevent further refusal to transition.
In many cases of my friends who have medically transitioned the decision to medically transition was ultimately a lot less difficult than the decision to socially transition because by the time they got there they’d already experienced bigotry and yes, their lives have gotten markedly better since…
So this is pretty much my perspective too, in conflating social and medical transition I think the challenges of social transition were generalized and put together with medical transition.. So of course I agree with you on everything. Surgeries can be quite painful and difficult to get through, but at the very least I think HRT is quite wonderful, and makes life easier and better. That's the fundamental point I'm trying to get across here: it's so great, you and every other trans person should at least try it to verify whether it's also a life-saving medication or not. And again, that mindset is built on the empirical evidence we have that not doing it results in worse health outcomes and deaths while doing it alleviates those risks.
But they also do not pity me and that is the tone of what you give off here (particularly in quoting a book about a womam dealing with religious trauma and internalized homophobia) the sense that you aren’t simply empathizing or sympathizing with the aspects of my choices which are difficult but that you veiw those choices as harmful or misguided.
Oh, I didn't feel pity at all, lol - sorry, maybe that would have made sense, but you just don't know me and it makes sense you wouldn't understand. I think what I'm feeling is maybe a connection to my pre-transition self and all the sacrifices they made, basically I haven't really accepted being trans and I'm still occupying a mindset of believing what I've done is selfish and wrong, and so I basically glorify your choice to sacrifice for your partner by not medically transitioning (note here I'm making more assumptions, I have no idea if you have taken medical transition steps, maybe you just haven't had surgeries but you've been on HRT and this whole conversation is just me making really dumb assumptions). I don't feel sorry for you, I feel envious - I spent a lot of my life being "good" the way you are now, making that kind of huge sacrifice and carrying that burden. In all my self-loathing and guilt, I think I miss that - my fucked up psychology seems to feel it's much better to be a martyr than to engage in self-care. The change in that perspective has not been complete.
I do think your choice is probably self-harming, but what you miss is that I think this is maybe a good thing still. I can't help but still operate under that old logic, I am skeptical that taking care of myself this way is really justified. That said, I'm pretty sure that's just my desire for punishment and suffering, and it's probably not healthy or good - or even related to you, tbh. Sorry, I really am, I hope by being so transparent I'm helping somehow, but I worry it's just indulgent and wasting your time.
I am glad that you found happiness and comfort in your transistion. It’s obviously a great fit. Maybe rethink your approach to non-binary folx as it seems like you bring a little overmuch of your personal baggage with you.
So, I am confused, I thought this started by talking about how you use non-binary as a quick gloss of your gender, but that seemed to imply your actual identity isn't non-binary, it's just the result of this compromise you have made about transition ... was I mistaken about that?
And yeah, a lot of personal baggage comes up with the trans stuff - I am projecting like crazy, making bad assumptions, etc. but I think the fundamental message still holds. Maybe an awkward analogy would ~~make this interaction so much worse~~ help explain my perspective: imagine someone had cancer throughout their breasts, but the cancer had become dormant. Let's say there is empirical evidence that this situation could result in increased risk of dying early, maybe the body isn't as healthy with the cancer in it, maybe the cancer could come back at some point - the analogy here is the way that the "wrong" hormones in the body cause depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, etc. - it's biochemical, the brain is altered by it. Let's say the dormant cancer messes with the body and mind too, and so you won't have the same energy, happiness, or general well-being unless the breasts and cancer are removed. It's a stretch, but we can imagine it, right? So, what I hear a lot of people saying (not just you, mind you - this is part of what's going on here, I'm interacting with lots of people in marriages who refuse to transition, socially and / or medically), is that their partner really likes their breasts, they are attracted to and attached to their breasts, and if they have their breasts removed it will be devastating to the relationship. Their partner won't be attracted to them anymore and it will spell the end of the relationship. They can't help that their partner is sexually attracted to their breasts, and so they have to choose between keeping the dormant cancer-ridden breasts and the risks and health consequences that come with it, or they can have the surgery and risk losing their relationship.
I just don't find keeping the cancerous breasts a reasonable option, ever. I think the trans issue is actually worse than the cancer, because it has to do with identity and who you are - living as someone else for a relationship is worse than just leaving dormant cancer in the body.
My view is that the only reason we think it's reasonable to keep the cancer is because we have been acculturated to believe it's wrong to transition, that it's a betrayal of the spouse, and that it's not that helpful medically. But that's just not what the empirical evidence shows.
I think this might be my struggle with black & white thinking, there are a few things going on with me. I might also feel like I had to justify my transition and that requires an extreme position, otherwise I have to admit I could have been like the Mennonite and gone the rest of my life without transitioning and I should have just toughed it out.
Anyway, my point is that I'm not trying to apply this to you as much as I'm trying to show my hang-up, I guess I'm hoping for you to complicate my view, to show me why I'm wrong. Maybe you can't do that, maybe it's wrong for me to expect or ask. Either way, that's how I think about this, and nothing you've said makes it make sense.
Of course, on the other hand I completely understand your perspective, that a partner is like your life blood, more important than even your own self. I would do the same.
Lily Tino generates rage bait for a living, and it's not surprising that other people are going to target her for being a toxic member of the community.
Respectability politics is a common dynamic in gay and queer politics - many people don't want to be associated with the extreme fringes that get highlighted in the popular culture, and they try to emphasize how much they're actually just like other, normal straight and cis people.
Respectability politics often leads people to gatekeep identities, e.g. binary trans people who medically transition trying to distance themselves from less understandable or acceptable identities like being non-binary.
So I think this might be the underlying mentality that motivates transmedicalists to gatekeep trans identity, and as to why people are trying to strip Lily Tino of her validity as a trans woman.
Because Lily Tino generates content intended to generate anger and hatred which then draws hatred and resentment against trans people generally, there is a desire from others to create distance and separation from her - a desperation by other trans people to not be associated with Lily Tino, and the way they do this is to strip her of her status as a member of the community.
This gatekeeping is rationalized or justified in various ways - it's not uncommon for transmedicalists or gatekeepers to point out the ways the "bad" person doesn't put enough effort into passing to call into question the authenticity of their identity.
The trans woman and right-wing Youtube influencer Blaire White did this to other trans Youtube content creators who were transfem and not as gender-conformist or passing as she was. She refused to use the correct pronouns, and cited their gender presentation as a reason for not respecting their identity and pronouns.
So the same justifications are being used with Lily Tino to strip her of her trans status.
This goes against the larger trans community's fundamental rule of respecting self-identity. This is basically a wedge issue in the trans community, with some of us believe respecting self identity is a fundamental moral principle, while others are more willing to express skepticism about identities they don't understand or don't like and wish to not be associated with.
This tension is partially because trans activism as a movement forms a big tent that holds alliances across very different groups - a non-binary person, a medically transitioned binary trans person, a drag queen, and a cross-dresser are all people under the trans umbrella but who have different needs and experiences.
Sometimes people don't feel seen or understood when an umbrella term encompasses so many disparate groups, and so it's not surprising when people desire better representation for their particular group or seek different alliances. There are some transmedicalists who believe trans people (which for them is a particular way of being trans, generally having extreme dysphoria and socially & medically transitioning to a binary identity) don't have that much in common with the rest of the LGBT+ community, and should essentially stop being associated with being queer or gay and form their own identity.
This desire to break from the LGBT+ alliance is another form of respectability politics, for some trans people queerness is not a part of their identity, especially if they medically transitioned and managed to re-integrate into cis-normative society as their target gender. They might live as a cis-passing straight person and think of their transness as an incidental medical fact about them rather than a major political identity, and for them queerness is a liability and not something they want to associate with, esp. if they have primarily straight, cis friends. Blaire White married a straight, cis man - she lives her life as a cis-passing woman, and it's not surprising then that from her position she can think of herself as not queer. She likely doesn't have queer friends and doesn't see herself as a part of that "community", which then makes it easier for her to not see the reasons for solidarity and alliance with other queers, and socially that alliance can look like a liability rather than a strength.
All this to say, Lily Tino deserves to be censured for being toxic and intentionally generating so much hatred against the trans community, but dehumanizing her by misgendering her is unacceptable and unnecessary to achieve the goal of condemning her.
I feel the same way about anti-trans activist and detransitioner Chloe Cole, refusing to respect her pronouns and identity as a detransitioner is probably tempting for some trans folks, but it goes against the principle of respecting self-identity thus against everything the trans community has been fighting for.
Yes, of course you're right that this is not my call.
I am aggressively in favor of medical transition in these contexts not because I dogmatically believe it's the best for everyone (I know for a fact it won't be - there are plenty of trans people who respond poorly to HRT, for example), but because so many people who would benefit and arguably need gender-affirming care do not seek it for various reasons that we would never consider reasonable for any other medical condition. I believe it's our culture's anti-trans bias that makes it so easy for trans folks to sacrifice their well-being and delay or refuse treatment.
On an epidemiological level I think this results in worse outcomes and great harm & cost for society (suicides, drug abuse, etc.). So on principle it seems like good clinical advice to suggest people with gender dysphoria take it seriously and get treatment. That doesn't mean it's simple or that you as an individual are absolutely compelled to follow that clinical advice, esp. when the costs are so high.
That said, I respect your boundary and don't feel the need to convince you, as I said it's something you have to figure out for yourself, and I have already admitted it's not always the best path in the end.
Sorry for over-stepping and creating stress, you shouldn't have to set that boundary with me and I need to think more on how to best approach providing a different perspective without coming across as too prescriptive.
for real, she's crushing it - I am amazed 🤩
Just a gentle suggestion that not physically transitioning for your partner's preferences is probably not healthy or OK, I know it's difficult and you have to figure that out yourself - but I encourage you to seek counseling and find a way to help your partner see that being trans is a genetic and medical condition that for your health and well-being you really shouldn't ignore and forego treatment on, esp. for something like their preferences. Not all trans experience is the same, but it's probable that medical transition would significantly improve your life.
Also, I hear you re non-binary and they/them being used to just make it "easier" or more understandable for people, which is so ironic considering it sounds like you would be able to conform to people's gender expectations and a binary model better if you were free to ...
Either way, I'm sorry for your situation, that's rough 🫂
I mean, there are probably things you could do to fem it up more if you wanted.
These are just suggestions, not criticisms.
Based on that photo, your lashes are very light colored, but even with my dark lashes I like to use a crimper and apply mascara whenever I go in public - you could try that out and see - it can make a big difference.
The forehead, nose, and chin also appear masculine. I use contouring makeup to diminish my nose bridge and lift my cheeks and diminish my neck and jawline.
For my forehead, I cover mine up with bangs. In general I try to direct attention to my eyes - so for example instead of a red or dark colored lipstick, I might use a light-colored pink tinted lip balm.
I can't see your eyebrows well, but having those worked on by a professional every few months and tweezing to maintain between appointments can really help fem up a face. Your hair is so light you might look at using a brow tinting brush to darken the eyebrows.
I also avoid turtle-necks because of the way they frame my neck, and certain cuts of shirts that direct the eyes to the wrong places, e.g. preferring v-necks to crew necks. I want to divert eyes away from my neck and shoulders, and towards breasts and hips. Wearing a long piece of jewelry can help with this too, as well as avoiding boxy cuts or ruffly shoulders, and avoiding anything that exposes the back.
The pattern of the clothes and the colors also make a difference in proportion and composition and the way the eye is directed.
I also think cycling my body fat has been really helpful, and I tend to have more body fat than most, which helps by giving me larger breasts and hips, and the fat on my face is distributed in a way now that is more feminine and gives a softer and rounder appearance.
Anyway, there's a ton more to discuss, but these are just some ways I tend to feminize on my own.
You don't have to feminize to be valid, but you might find it helps people see the woman you want them to see. Still, there is a kind of toxicity there - I'm not saying passing should be your priority.
It does seem like cis people have a particular way of "seeing" gender, and it's hard when the body or gender presentation you have conflicts with what you want people to see.
I'm rather conformist, it's very important to me to do everything I can to make my body and gender presentation match what people expect from a woman, so they see a woman. I don't really expect the average person to see a woman if I don't look like one, and I feel really awkward expecting them to think of me as and see me as a woman when I don't appear as one.
That said, I understand the frustration, esp. if you provide pronouns and the other person doesn't make an effort to respect them - at best it seems impolite and rude, at worst it seems hostile and violent.
I really hated early in transition the way I went from tolerating the wrong pronouns (in pre-transition) to feeling like no pronouns worked for me - if someone used my "preferred" pronouns (she/her) it felt like they were just being polite. (I wanted to be a woman, not be coddled in my delusions and politely referred to as a woman while nobody actually sees me as a woman.)
On the other hand, if someone used a different pronoun it felt like they were being either impolite, forgetful, or outright hostile. Before transition it was easier to just swallow the he/him and remain under the cover of being "normal" - but after transition it was like I "ruined" my gender and my gender was never "right", and no pronoun felt safe or appropriate.
After a year and a half of estrogen injections, my body has changed enough to fit within cis standards for a woman, even though I can't see it myself. The estrogen, and of course all the immense amount of work I have put into trying to pass (voice therapy, skin care routine, diet, exercise, education on fashion and makeup, etc.).
It feels weird now, like I'm no longer "trans" in the same way because I am gender conforming enough now. So instead of being overtly trans, my transness is a hidden flaw in my gender, something only a small number of people can see (usually only other trans people), and which is lying there waiting to undermine my womanhood for anyone who notices.
I don't know what your gender goals are, but I really feel for non-binary folks whose gender expressions fall outside of what is commonly accepted, it is just so hard to get "seen" correctly by people when you are trans.
yeahhh, the problem is people think my partner is my mom and I'm her daughter ... hence the desire to uh, avoid that
as someone who lives in the south, my personal (read: worthless) speculation about this is that in the South, gay porn is more taboo and is a "forbidden fruit", which makes it psychologically more appealing. There is a study that showed when we make something forbidden, there is a greater desire to have it and a larger physiological response upon seeing it.
So I think for bisexuals, closeted gay men, and even some curious straight men, the forbidden nature of gay porn in the South makes it more novel, compelling, and rewarding - so it makes sense to me that by making it forbidden you see increased demands.
But don't put much stock into my speculation, it's just a guess and based on almost nothing - human sexual behavior is very complex and we should be careful about the narratives we build about them.
It's easy to shit on the South, conservatives make good villains for their role in the country's reactionary politics - but ultimately the average Southern conservative voter are conservative because they lack education, are poor, are victims of religious exploitation - and so our villains are also some of the most victimized populations (even though they are victimized often from their own politics - though not exclusively).
Demands for justice can easily turn into a blood-thirst for revenge, and sometimes I think there is a little bit of that going on against closeted or conservative gay folks who work against their own interests - we hate them and we want to see them suffer, esp. from their own bad actions.
Of course it's reasonable to have resentment for the people working against LGBT+ rights, but I think sometimes what psychologically motivates us can be a little bit darker and can overcompensate - the desire for justice can sometimes be masking an underlying anger and desire for justified revenge.
ContraPoints sorta goes into this territory about blood-thirst and revenge porn in her video on Envy, if you want more on this.
Anyway, these might be some reasons to be cautious or recognize the nuance ...
honestly a lot of us are autistic and don't read the room well - I think developing social and situational awareness is an important part of avoiding situations that escalate into violence.
And also, no matter what you do, you can't always avoid or mitigate harm - if you are a victim, don't obsess about how it's your fault because you didn't learn Krav Maga, or didn't read the situation well, or didn't have pepper spray, or if you froze in the moment, etc. - the reality is that you are the victim, whatever you could have done better is irrelevant, the responsibility falls entirely on the aggressor.
And I don't recommend buying a handgun unless you have a huge amount of money and time to go to the range once a week and train for hours, have the money to pay for that range and the ammunition, and even then, the evidence we have is that having a gun increases the likelihood you are killed in an altercation (and in a trans population guns are a double liability because of suicide risk).
hm, losing the vaginal canal is part of what is gender affirming for trans men, and the penis is small but has full sensation and could be used for penetration AFAIK. Besides, some cis men have penises of the same size.
If I were a trans man I would probably opt for this surgery because it creates a penis will full sensation...