Isn't it strange how we discovered a lot more stars after inventing telescopes?
Obviously there was an unrelated increase in stars born at that exact time.
To try to explain the increase of stars in the universe without it's correlation with vaccine rates is just disingenuous. \s
Everyone knows that if the nebula takes paracetamol during pregnancy it increases the chance of K-type star creation.
This is actually the most apt analogy for the whole "sudden increase in diagnosis" bullshit line that anti-vaxxers and anti-science people continually vomit out.
I'm in no way an anti-vaxxer or anti-science (I'm a researcher myself). I still think it can be justified to look closely at the large increase in, and volume of, various mental disorders. First of all: There's no doubt that a lot more people are being diagnosed due to better diagnosis tools.
However, a major difference between psychological and somatic illness is that the divide between sick and healthy is (typically) a lot sharper in the latter case. Either you have an injury or infection, or you don't, and we can measure that. In the case of e.g. depression or ADHD, there's a much wider gray zone from e.g. "healthy person having a bad day" to "clinically depressed".
The point I'm getting at is this: When a certain percentage of the population is diagnosed with a disorder, you have to ask whether we've started diagnosing ordinary human existence as a disease. Alternatively, you have to start looking at a systematic level for why an enormous portion of the population has a certain disorder. Where that limit should be is an open question, but I would argue that when something like 10-20 % of the population has a specific disorder, we're no longer just looking at individual cases of disease but rather at (a) the possibility that the criteria for diagnosis are two wide, so we're catching "healthy" people with it, or (b) we have a society-level problem (e.g. an epidemic).
I know of areas with ADHD-rates around 20 %. For a somatic illness, we would never let that kind of infection rate pass without taking a closer look at what's going on at the societal level.
You cannot equate ADHD and spectrum mental conditions with disease. For one they are not a disease, you cannot catch them and you cannot give them to other people. They are the way people's brains work. People are just born that way, same way people are born gay or trans, smart or dumb, handsome or ugly. You can't have an outbreak of ADHD or autism the same way you have an outbreak of the flu or covid.
People have been searching for environmental factors for autism, ADHD, depression, and all kinds of mental conditions for years. Other than crackpot anti-vaxxers and people like RFK Jr who try to throw life saving vaccines and common medications like Tylenol under the bus with literally no literature whatsoever to back it up, there has been no links discovered. Genetics and fetal gestation is weird and people just get born different sometimes. We as a society need to accept that and stop thinking these are diseases that need to be "fixed".
My cousin was diagnosed by a brain scan. She signed up to be part of a clinical trial for something else, got kicked out of the trial because her fMRI showed she had ADHD.
So if we can literally scan someone's brain and diagnose them from a picture instead of all these vague "describe your symptom" guessing... why don't we?
Money
It's quite costly to run an fMRI. Not needed if you can get the same results more or less from a questionnaire.
In my professional experience, it can be hard to tell between ADHD symptoms and CPTSD symptoms. The checklist is not a great way to diagnose people. We usually do a lot more assessments, I also use a computerized test to measure reaction time and error commission.
I wish we (therapists) at least had the option to order an MRI or recommend a doctor orders one in difficult cases (I can do the latter but they will just laugh at me).
Wait, is there an actual chance to "see" ADHD in an MRI image? I was under the impression that we can't do that (yet) and the only way to diagnose was through questionnaires, attention testing and such. That's what I was told by the doctor who ultimately diagnosed me two years ago
Wait, is there an actual chance to "see" ADHD in an MRI image?
Only fMRI, which is different, and even more expensive. It's basically the same as asking you a bunch of questions but then seeing which parts light up. Brain can't lie.
Like @yucandu@lemmy.world said, it would need to be an fMRI, which is primarily used in research as far as I know. And while it alone could not tell you definitively "this person has ADHD," it could help rule out other conditions (like TBI, which can also present similar to ADHD). Ultimately, your doctor is right that a standard MRI cannot diagnose it.
I like to combine the checklist with interviews (like DIVA, Diagnostic Interview for ADHD in Adults) and computerized continuous performance tests, like QBTest. Of course, there is also a lot of observation and sometimes even asking humorous questions, like "Do you have The Chair^TM^ at home?"
The Chair^TM^
It's also worth noting that ADHD, as a condition, is mostly a Gordian knot of maladaptations. Built up over childhood (and beyond). While there are a lot of commonalities, you need to do a detailed investigation to pick out what bits are a problem to the individual.
If you're going to go through that process, then you might as well not tie up an MRI machine for no reason.
Drugs can treat the base problem, but don't work well without the follow-up care to repair the behavioural damage.
I spent most of my life undiagnosed, because it used to be believed that only boys could have ADHD. But I knew, and was formally diagnosed as an adult only at the insistence of my partner.
Like many adults I just got recently diagnosed in my mid 30s.
For me it was that I can't have adhd because I was good at school and uni. Then I completely fell apart when I entered work.
I had to go through depression and burn out and bore out and more. Eventually someone said I could have adhd and just been able to deal due to high IQ.
Turns out that's what it was. I'm really good at learning new stuff. So school and uni. I really suck at repeating the same shit all day. So work. Welp. Helps to know.
To my understanding it shows up differently in women. What were your symptoms? Also some women get diagnosed with it during perimenopause.
Perimenipause is an absolute nightmare. It makes ADHD much much worse.
This thread somehow brought out some of the most misinformed, boomer-brain takes imaginable and comes dangerously close to anti-intellectualism. We can all agree that labels can be reductive and unhelpful, but as someone with a neurological disability, seeing people debate whether a disorder that makes it incredibly hard to enjoy my life is even real or not is fucking horrible.
According to the administration at a school I’m familiar with, at least 50% of the 5th grade class has ADHD.
So, not having ADHD is the disorder.
Their source is they made it up. Getting diagnosed is a pain and there is no way 50% of any sizable population has gone through that process, let alone received a diagnosis.
50%?
The national stats are ~1:10 people have it. 50% is a huge anomaly. Something isn’t right.
Yes, what isn’t right is that it’s an upper class private middle school full of wealthy parents with access to psychiatrists who are financially motivated to provide a fashionable diagnosis.
It’s also a way to get extra time (accommodations) on standardized tests (time and a half or even double time) which further widens the success gap between rich and poor students.
I know a 5 year old that the teachers at her private school complained that they were spending to much time talking to other children instead of doing school work so the teachers recommended that she be put on medication.
Now apparently she just has horrible night terrors that has her rip at her skin each night but she's much more calm now... Anyways the teacher ended up hitting her and the 5 year old got expelled for being a nuisance anyways.
At what point does it just become a personality trait, like introversion vs extroversion?
When it causes active problems with life. It's also worth noting that it's a brain chemistry change. Where on the sliding scale you pick is, ultimately, a little arbitrary.
I personally suspect modern life isn't helping. The pressures on children are quite different now. I suspect many children who wouldn't develop symptomatic ADHD in earlier years now do.
The moral panic of overdiagnosis comes from conservatism's obsession with hypernormalcy. Basically unless your really-really failed to be normal, you're not allowed to stray from it, and even then, it would be good if you were normal, because they like the virtue of normalcy, and also thinking is hard, and also also change is bad.
Yes this explains modern transphobia a lot. Some admitted, that it has to be "all undone", because people stopped trying to be normal first and foremost. This also partly explains gatekeeping in fandoms.
It’s almost as if we’ve gotten better at understanding the condition overall and in nuance.
If ADHD is common enough to be prelevant in 5% of population... Then to me it seems like its not something we should be drugging people for, but instead adjust the lives to it?
I mean we don't give "righ-handeness" drugs to left-handed people. We give them left-handed scissors.
10% of women have endometriosis. Would you take away their pain meds? You can make their work life easier (more sick leave) but then it still affects their personal life.
ADHD is so much more than "can't pay attention in class". It affects your personal life too. Usually that's a deciding factor for getting meds.
No thanks, I'd like to be able to think with a clear head, and do something with my life, not be stuck in one of like 6 suitable work places.
Most data suggests it is under diagnosed.
Especially in women, like by a lot.
It's the left-handedness chart all over again.
I was diagnosed in my late 50's. It was a complicated process because there is another mental health co-morbidity that shares some traits.
After going through the more than a year long process, we are working on dialing in the meds.
One of the challenges for diagnosis is that the attention economy is shortening a lot of people's attention span, causing many people to feel that they have ADHD, and diverting resources from diagnosing people who actually have ADHD. Not saying that the issue shouldn't be addressed. The combination of these factors, and the rather long and complicated process of a proper diagnosis is a challenge.
Why do we need to have a study on this when we can just listen to grandpa’s opinion, planted in his mind by Fox News?
This is a recurring issue. Too many trans people? Liberal agenda spreading!
It’s like they don’t understand causations.
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dart board;; science bs
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