Really bad. I want some philosophy. Some slow, quiet discussions. Discovery is all bombast and action. No substance.
I have an intense distaste for Discovery, and wouldn't recommend it.
I could rant about it a la Angela Collier for 4 hours but here's my main issues boiled down to a bulleted list:
Some things I like about Star Trek:
• Optimistic future, humans can create greatness and beauty if they continue to check and overcome their faults
• No black and white villains. All antagonists are given nuance and development and many become favored allies
• Themes of teamwork, a functional ensemble, core crew are all valid and valued, no one star of the show.
• No such thing as magic or gods, everything is in the realm of human understanding if we have sufficient knowledge
Guess what Disovery has?
• Nihilistic, apocalyptic future
• Bad guys that are just bad, they're evil, don't ask questions
• One principal star of the show that is the focus of nearly every episode
• No attempt to explain things with any veneer of science
Then add on some blatant examples of total ignorance for the universe it's set in, attempts at ham handed fan service by shoe horning in clumsy references to characters from other series, you have a show that is farther from Star Trek than a 14 year old's submission on IO9. When it actually let the supporting cast do things, they were charming and likable, but Stamets, Saru and Tilly weren't enough to keep me from getting mad at just about every episode.
If you don't really care about or know anything about Star Trek it can be entertaining I guess, but why watch it when there's Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks and The Orville?
The Orville came out at the perfect time. The world was craving a good Trek, and was served Discovery. Orville scratched that decade-long itch, hitting all the right notes (though S1 was a bit rough..)
Similarly with Picard and Lower Decks. Picard was a high-budget fanservice with a thin veneer of storyline. Lower Decks was good old classic Trek fun and shenanigans.
And all the crying... my god, so many tears 🙄
With the soft speaking and camera panning across the bridge to catch everyone's facial expressions in reaction to Burnham's 13th motivational speech for the episode.
I agree 100% with this take and want to thank you for that excellent video! I'm not all the way through yet, but I'm thoroughly enjoying it.
I very much enjoyed the start but steadily lost interest.
There's some good stuff in Discovery all the way through, don't get me wrong. But they kind of flipped the script in a way I did not appreciate.
Most of classic Trek showed us a future with a largely functional society, mostly full of good people who were ready and willing to deal with occasional corruption.
Lots of newer Trek, and especially Discovery, showed us a future where society is largely dysfunctional and corruption is the norm. Almost everyone in the series who isn't a main character (plus a couple who are) is a piece of shit. Even the "good guys" frequently encourage or at least tolerate clearly evil behavior as long as it serves their ends. But it's okay because...friendship I guess?!?
Their heart is in the right place but the writing is generally bad. I think this generation of writers is incapable of imagining a better world, which, sure, is understandable, given how thoroughly corrupt our current society is. But it's deeply depressing. It lacks soul.
SNW is better in this regard. But you'll probably want to watch season 1 of Discovery first since there's some crossover.
I watched all of Discovery. It is, by far, the worst of all Star Treks. (Disclosure: I have not seen TAS.)
The reason is simple: Discovery is really the Michael Burnham show. She is the Mariest Sue who ever Mary Sued. Discovery could have been a really great show if it had been an ensemble show because it has a lot of very interesting characters whom we never explore.
Instead, everything centres around Burnham. She is the reason for the war at the start of the show. She is the magical, fated solution. She is Spock's (adopted) sister and had immeasurable impact on his life. Even through timey-wimey things, her (biological) mother comes to save her and the universe.
And on top of all that is the crying. Oh, gosh, everything is so emotional on this show. There is a time and place for emotions, but Discovery was too much of it, including inappropriate times. Burnham and her maybe-broken-up-boyfriend stop in the middle of an infiltration in a hostile station to talk about their relationship.
Even the really great characters, Saru and (Emperor Georgiou) centre around Burnham. She is like a sister to Saru, she saved his life, he gives up being a Captain to continue serving under her captaincy. Burnham is Georgiou's daughter (not actually), and Georgiou's love for her (as much as she can love) changes her.
No one has a story unless its actually about Burnham. Or they get a story and then get killed off.
The best thing about Discovery is it brought Trek back on TV and it gave us the rest of this era of shows.
She is the Mariest Sue who ever Mary Sued.
For clarity's sake, a Mary Sue describes a character who can do no wrong. This is how it's described on TVTropes:
[A Mary Sue] is exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws.
I'm curious how you square that description of a Mary Sue with Burhnam's many regular, repeated, failures and flaws as seen on screen and described in the dialogue? As one example, her character is introduced in the very first episode as a misguided mutineer and is demoted for it.
I think Picard was worse than Discovery. Discovery had major flaws but there were moments when it really shined. It had some interesting ideas too. It just wasn't an ensemble show.
Picard is just awful. Mediocre S1-2 that doesn't know what it's trying to achieve, and then S3 abandons every plot thread that they bothered to build up in favor of nostalgia baiting and bringing back the Borg, which was very tonally confusing after S2.
The tone is also just bizarrely dire throughout. People complain about Discovery not feeling like Trek, but I had that problem way moreso with Picard. And now it's this minefield in the canon of the early 25th century that every show that comes after will have to figure out what to do with. At least Discovery going immediately jumping to the far future means it wasn't able to fuck up the timeline much, and what it did do was cheekily classified.
I am no fan of Discovery but can you re-read that and substitute another name, like I dunno James T Kirk? Why is it always about him? Why is he so good at everything?
Having a female MC does not make it automatically a Mary Sue. Especially not when they are smacked down constantly, shown making lots of mistakes, and having a character development arc.
It's not awful. In fact it has a lot of great high points. On balance, I would say that if you compared it objectively to the first 65 episodes of TNG, it would compare rather favorably.
It's fine.
And those that disagree should be forced to watch Star Trek: Section 31 until they can have a reasonable conversation like an adult.
There is an entire season about warp drive not working anywhere in the universe. It turns out that it stopped working because an alien got really sad. Not because he did anything because he was sad, just because he got sad. Ohh, and somehow the Vulcans, with all their logic, never thought of tracking down the cause by triangulation.
That was the end of the series for me.
This, and he wanted connection from someone of his species, and the first officer of the one ship that can overcome the plot debuff happens to be that species, a species we barely see outside this plot....it's writing so bad you can't see the show through it. Emotional stories are appropriate, it's why Troi was a bridge officer. But this show was constantly setting up unsolvable problems that could only be fixed by this one crew, which breaks immersion. Good trek doesn't have 50 Galaxy or universe ending threats only fixable by plot-armored main characters, it has ship, person, and planet level threats giving you the space to appreciate the human story. Even DS9 kept the stories on missions while the thread of the war was just a hum with reasonable stakes.
I really find this narrative offensive.
First there’s the mischaracterization of a very young and completely dependent who child completely abandoned with the death of the last adult who cared or supported him.
But more than that, Star Trek is littered with a trope about children with incredible powers to interact with the universe who nearly destroy the galaxy or civilizations or large swaths of them.
It started with Charlie X, and was taken up by every other series, sometimes more than once.
On all those other occasions, our hero ship and crew miraculously saved the day and prevented disaster by psychic or superpowered child who was incapable of adult decision-making.
Discovery called the bluff.
Discovery reversed the trope, had the child’s powers actually destroy civilization.
Instead of the hero crew stopping the disaster in the nick of time (again), Discovery finds the child and solves the problem.
And long time fans are offended by THAT?!!
Honestly, when I hear that interpretation it makes me feel like the person didn't actually watch the season, they just watched the outrage peddling influencers online.
Semi-related but I lost count of the number of times someone on Reddit described Adira's coming out (a ten second moment in a larger unrelated scene) as a "huge story arc" or being comprised of "multiple episodes" being "shoved in the audiences faces". I felt like I was taking crazy pills until I learned that's exactly how the outrage-tubers were presenting it. If you'd never watched the season you'd have no idea it was such an inconsequential moment.
Honestly, when I hear that interpretation it makes me feel like the person didn't actually watch the season, they just watched the outrage peddling influencers online.
Sorry to say, I watched every single episode, up until the end of that season, myself. I'll admit to being extra harsh in judging this season since I was already pretty fed up with the writing by that point. I had very little patience left.
Discovery is fine. It takes some weird turns, sort of a necessity since they chose to make it a prequel with a unique propulsion system. And it is not like the 90s shows. And there's a vocal group of fans that hate it just because it's different, it was the first show coming back from the long show hiatus, and many are simply incapable of admitting that.
Picard's seasons are all weird in their own way and with their own flaws, totally separate from Disco.
Watch the first season and make your own decision. Star Trek fans are some of the worst for having outsized online hatred of shit that doesn't matter.
fans that hate it just because it's different
Fans hated it not solely because it was different, that’s hardly a reason. They hated it because:
It wasn’t just different, it was bad. Really bad. It was like a vuvuzela in an acoustic song.
And this is coming from someone who watched a season and a half before quitting, but who loved Enterprise, who also had its glaring flaws, but was true to canon.
The first season, and the first few episodes of season two take some extra weird turns because of the revolving door of producers during that period. The original producer left the show during season one. Then a duo took over who took the story in quite a different direction. Those two left in early season two. After that production finally settled into a more stable state.
Anyway the characters and acting are great, and that counts for a lot!
I've been doing a complete rewatch of Deep Space 9, and it really underscored why I didn't enjoy Discovery and Picard. My favourite parts of DS9 are the character driven moments, whether they're big and dramatic, or lightweight and silly. I like that the show has enough space for that. The show has more Plot than previous Star Trek, but that Plot still serves the characters. Discovery is not nearly as bad as Picard on this front, but I still found myself wishing for more opportunity to get to know the characters.
I'll be honest, I can't remember all my particular criticisms, but here's my impressions that I have left:
It'd be more accurately titled Star Trek: Burnham, because 95% of the time, every problem or mystery is somehow related to Burnham, everyone else is just supporting cast.
Like Picard, each season felt very disconnected from the others, there's some continuity, but you could almost name the season based on the feel of an episode.
Plots more often than not felt underwhelming, as they were solved by essentially deus ex machina, mcguffins, surprise reveals or abrupt character changes.
It was largely visually ok, actors all did at least a decent job.
I have 0 desire to ever rewatch a single episode.
It'd be more accurately titled Star Trek: Burnham
I always called it 'The Burnham Show, starring Michael Burnham'.
It was crazy to me how they could make every plot line revolve around her in some way, have her always be part of figuring out the solution, everyone else fawning over how great she is and what they'd do without her, just the lengths the writers went to to insert her everywhere. It's just so on your nose and gets really tiring after like 3 seasons.
Compared with like DS9 where you could have whole episodes where the main character, Quark, only has like 1-2 lines and they focus more on supporting cast like Cisco or just Bashir and Garrek (sorry, I couldn't resist :) )
The central character of the show is the least interesting person on it somehow despite having what could have been a good back story.
Everyone else seems to be some sort of real person to me. She is just so boring and flat and everything revolves around her for no real reason. Her purpose seems to be to be the fence post that stands there and eventually cries.
The best thing about the show was it gave us Anson Mount as Pike and he is outstanding. He was so good as Pike we got SNW as a spinoff.
It wasn't my cup of tea.
My favorite new Trek remains Lower Decks.
I couldn't make it through the first season and tried picking up season 2 to see if it improved any. Didn't watch anything past that.
It was written by people who didn't have a good grasp on what star trek was, or thought they could remake it better for a new generation. But they ended up making something that just leaves a sour taste in your mouth if you know what that setting is capable of being.
To me, STD and the first season or so of Picard feel exactly like when a video game you thoroughly enjoy gets adapted into movie. There's recognizable elements there, but nobody is acting the way they should and everything has that uncanny valley affect where you know what it's supposed to be but it's clearly failing to do it convincingly. It's hard to point to what is actually wrong but you know several elements are off.
Don't listen to the critics on the internet. If you're not dying soon, watch it all. It's Trek. It's roughly 60% great, 30% mediocre to aged poorly, and 10% let's never talk about it again.
I would go in rough order of release because they do like harkening back to stuff. Actually rewatching TOS will be good for SNW. And Disco S2 is its backdoor pilot.
Discovery was so bad I had to stop after season 2 and have written off everything that they've set in the 31st century
My honest opinion is that Discovery is nowhere near as bad as its detractors say.
That said, I also wouldn’t call it good Star Trek and didn’t finish the final season.
It’s boring, not bad.
If you're a fan of older Star Treks it's bad, real bad. I watched until the end of season 2 with my partner and had to bail. Everyone above has given good reasons why, I'll add one I haven't seen: the lead actress (Soneqa Martin-Green?) overacts Michael Burnham. She overdramatizes almost every scene, to the detriment of the believabolity of the in-universe world, I tried to overlook it but found it grating. I told my partner that half-way into season two, and she responded that she doesn't really see it. Then about five seconds later Burnham is raising her voice to a senior officer and on the verge of tears over nothing.. a minor misunderstanding. Partner laughs and goes, "ok yeah I see it".
I'd rewatch Enterprise 100 times over ever watching Discovery again, and Enterprise is probably my least favourite pre-2010 Trek, if that helps you.
Naw it’s a journey. I accepted discovery like I did voyager. Once I saw what it was in it own, much better. Second watch got better, just like voyager.
The main problem with discovery is they set it basically in the tos timeline which created all these weird plot things that had to be resolved with weirder plot things. I firmly believe if they had set it a decent amount post voyager that it would have made it much better. I don't want to spoil but I felt season 2 fit better but having such weird start really messed it up for me.
It's always worth remembering that the people who dislike something tend to be the loudest.
There's no doubt reactions to Discovery have been mixed. Personally, I enjoyed it. It was uneven and flawed and sometimes frustrating. But there were enough good moments to keep me going. I don't think anyone can tell you if you'll enjoy it... You just have to try it and see.
Some people like it. Some people hate it. You’re going to have to make that determination for yourself. You’ll know by the time you get to season two which camp youre in
Personally I found the cast wasted on poor writing. And as someone else mentioned, the show concentrates entirely too much on Burnham. Half of the bridge crew you probably won’t know their names by the end of season one. There were a couple of bright spots — Saru’s backstory and character were well done.
i think this clip really highlights all the issues i had with discovery.
kinda poor acting, cringe ass dialogue, boring and bland music, self aggrandisement, and too many obvious cgi 'set pieces'.
new trek is action oriented space opera, not hard scifi morality tales. ig its just not for me
It's also important to separate what you're seeing online from the leftovers of a manufactured "opposition campaign" orchestrated by a handful of reactionary influencers.
Personally speaking I did not like the early two seasons, but I thought three is ok, and seasons four and five I consider to be some of Trek's best!
No. Far from it. The First half of the first season sucks, second half gets better, Second Season is really watchable, third season is where it grows it's beard.
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