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submitted 6 days ago by Catoblepas to c/onehundredninetysix
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[-] MudMan@fedia.io 111 points 6 days ago

I know exactly how every beat of this conversation is going to go, but I'm still here for it.

I've been hearing how games are too focused on graphics since the late 1980s.

That time you remember games being all about fun? People then were complaining about how chasing visuals over gameplay was ruining games.

I know because I was there and I was complaining.

Graphics are fun and cool. I like graphics.

[-] BodilessGaze@sh.itjust.works 45 points 6 days ago

It all started going downhill when Nethack added color support in 1989: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHack_3.0.4#Significant_changes

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[-] MrMobius@sh.itjust.works 38 points 6 days ago

Design > graphics Also, strike the earth!

[-] MudMan@fedia.io 14 points 6 days ago

Design = graphics.

Or maybe Design(graphics).

Graphics ARE design. Barring very few exceptions, games communicate themselves visually. What the graphics look like, how they are laid out and how they convey the rules are absolutely fundamental parts of the experience-as-designed on every game, regardless of how technically complex the visuals turn out to be.

These arguments always bum me out a little, because they start from the premise that, say the people at, say, Yacht Club care less about or put less effort into what their games look like than larger devs using photorreal visuals, which should not survive looking at a single frame of their work.

[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Same word, different meanings. It may not be the technically correct definition of the word, but typically when people talk about "good graphics," they're talking about photorealism. In MrMobius's comment, "graphics" = high resolution, photorealism, the kind of thing the comic we're commenting under is talking about, and "design" = art direction, aesthetic.

ETA: That said, higher resolution can make already strong art direction even better. I think a large part of what makes Clair Obscur look so pretty is the juxtaposition of the surreal elements with the photorealistic graphics. Esquie sticks out to me in particular, because he looks so physically real, and also so alien.

I'm not trained in media criticism, so I'm sure someone else can phrase that better than I can

ETA more: Also, games that are designed to look as real as possible also take a lot of effort and talent. Just because Bodycam doesn't look like a comic book or a surreal painting doesn't mean it doesn't have strong art direction. It cannot be easy to make a game that looks so indistinguishable from actual body cam footage.

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[-] Catoblepas 14 points 6 days ago

Graphics are cool! I just also think the story, mechanics, and game difficulty balance should have an equal amount of consideration, which seems poorly lacking in a lot of modern AAA games. A mile wide and an inch deep is a saying for a reason.

[-] tobis@lemm.ee 15 points 6 days ago

The real point where this argument falls apart is that modern AAA games almost exclusively use TAA, which ruins graphics. I’m so sick of shadows blurring and everything looking terrible and people saying it’s next level.

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[-] straightjorkin@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

Purists when an artform incorporates another artform: >:(

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[-] embit@feddit.org 21 points 5 days ago

Shoutout to Caves of Qud, because it wasn't mentioned yet. I've been looking for a game that comes close to ZAngband which I played in the 90s. COQ has a tileset, so it's not ASCII and I didn't like the looks at first but it's fun when you see how deep it is. Complex character creation, quests, factions, 'bosses'.. I think the world map is not randomly generated, the rest is afaik (ruins, multi-levelled lairs, most villages..).

[-] germanatlas 28 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

You think games have to be fun?

You will play pathologic and fear and hunger until the situation improves

[-] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 5 days ago

...and then there's the second Fear and Hunger, where my first run ended with the Woodsman because I chopped off the arm holding the giant axe instead of killing his dick, and then the dick detached and went all Alien face hugger and stunned me while he beat me up with his remaining arm.

Of course I like explaining Pathologic to people as "the game that looks at a glance like it's an FPS adjacent RPG but in which when you first get a gun you will probably immediately sell it to buy some bread". Fucking plague caused by an infected wound in a very unusual location.

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[-] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 46 points 6 days ago

Dwarf Fortress has graphics now! You don't have to install the Lazy Newb Pack! What a time to be alive

[-] Kaput@lemmy.world 17 points 6 days ago

I came to ask if I could still play dwarf fortress.. Now that the make it understandable to me

[-] Solely_a_Catt@programming.dev 14 points 6 days ago

You can still play the ascii-version :P

[-] Sabata11792@ani.social 11 points 6 days ago

The game is free, the graphics cost extra.

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[-] applemao@lemmy.world 35 points 6 days ago

Definitely how it feels sometimes talking to the gamers who literally care about graphics over everything. I care about gameplay..

[-] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 26 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I see both sides of the argument and generally lean on the older games are fun side, but my God, just let people enjoy what they want. Gaming eletism is so annoying and doesn't even stop people from playing new games anyways.

Get them knowledge that duenvo is an issue, not that they should be still playing super mario bros 1 or snake on a Nokia if they want to own their games.

[-] Zanathos@lemmy.world 18 points 5 days ago

Growing up, one of my best friends parents set us up with a terminal MUD connection. Basically an old school, text based only MMO. You had to type in your commands, "look north", "walk east", "attack ". I was able to make a Sayian character, walk around town and Kamehameha my foes. I recall finding Smurf village and getting killed many times by Papa Smurf.

I wish I remembered what server it was or if any even exist any more.

[-] Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

I played a MUD based around the combat school in Ender's Game. That was amazing to my 2002 brain.

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[-] regdog@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I have some great memories playing dwarf fortress. It was a lot of effort but the payoff was fantastic. I don't know if I can bring myself to spent that much energy on a game again.

[-] KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I feel like the older, pixel sparse graphical style is making a comeback.

A lot of recent surprise hits were of that style:

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

Valheim is also a game that's low pixel count but due to sweeping landscapes and amazing lighting is gorgeous.

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[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 19 points 6 days ago

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2134320/ENA_Dream_BBQ/

Just wish it was a bit longer, but for the price of free I can't complain. I suggest going in blind and high if that's your thing.

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 9 points 5 days ago

First, I can't afford a new computer or even a new graphics card. All these "gaming on a budget" type things are all priced in USD, and I'm in Canada after conversion and the Canada tax, local shops are selling it for a lot more.... I can only imagine that going up with the tariffs.

Second, graphics ain't shit. Look at some of the most popular games around and some of them have the "worst" graphics. I don't mean to pick on any game in specific, but I'll mention two notable examples: the first is Minecraft. Square voxels and pretty basic visuals all around. Easily one of the most popular titles of all time. I don't play it, but I get it. The other example I want to point to is schedule I. Honestly the graphics in the game, when compared to the nearly realistic content that games like assassin's Creed has, and it's basically trash by comparison. The game is huge and hugely popular. The graphics, or lack thereof, is not a detractor from how fun the game is.

Don't get me wrong. High graphics can contribute to a good game; and therein lies the problem. You need to have a good game that you can apply the graphics to, in order for it to be valuable. If you take away the graphics and replace the visuals with something far more basic, and the game loses its appeal, your game sucks. Fix that first, then try again.

I have a pretty massive collection of steam titles that I'm planning to play as things start to devolve into higher and higher specs for basically no gains. Like ray tracing, it's cool, looks good... But I don't need it to have fun in a game. I usually turn it off because it compromises performance for basically no real gain. Sure, shadows look a bit more shit, and lights aren't as glowy, but I don't care about that. I just want to play. Why is RT a requirement for some games now? The hell?

Anyways. High graphics are better in more cinematic games, but publishers have gotten so obsessed with making cinematic content that they forgot to include a game with it.

Give me more substance, more character development, more scenes, not just action.

[-] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I would agree that schedule 1 has very high graphics.

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[-] Ethalis@jlai.lu 20 points 6 days ago

And yet Clair Obscur Expedition 33 is both super fun and breathtakingly beautiful

[-] HEXN3T 17 points 6 days ago

It's also proof you don't need a massive team and an obscene budget to push good looks

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[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Largely because it has such strong art direction. They really make use of the high resolution to make the humans look more human, and the non-humans look more alien

That said, if I have one criticism about the game, it's that there isn't really a lot of cohesion between character/creature designs. It's the same thing that bugged me about Stellar Blade, as opposed to something like Nier Automata or Gears of War. The nevrons don't really look like they belong in the game the way locusts do in Gears.

But I am only in Act 2. Maybe this criticism will wane as I learn more about them

[-] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 days ago

OK, but... Does anyone have recommendations for obscure text-based games? Sounds rad tbh

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

West of House. You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.

[-] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago

Start pulling the lumber off the house to build a fortnite tower into the sky so I can see further.

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

You've been eaten by a Grue.

[-] Catoblepas 8 points 5 days ago

I was going to recommend The Great Machine: A Fragment by Jonas Kyratzes (writer for The Eternal Cylinder and The Talos Principle, if you’ve heard of those), but it looks like it’s not on his website anymore :( It’s probably been close to 20 years since I played it, but I remember enjoying it. It’s about being a soldier in a war.

[-] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago
[-] Catoblepas 5 points 5 days ago

Holy shit, nice! Time to go back down the rabbit hole

[-] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

If you count ASCII graphics as text-based games you could play CDDA. Better requirement is games that could be played over an SSH session.

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[-] HollowNaught@lemmy.world 17 points 6 days ago

Graphics are cool, but I'd rather prefer a fun game over a good looking game

[-] daveB@sh.itjust.works 8 points 6 days ago

The graphics on this comic are rough 😜

[-] SpruceBringsteen@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

Elin is the game you're looking for.

It's not ascii... but it is very ADOM influenced. And very japanese.

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[-] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

The only roguelike I play is Rogue.

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[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 days ago

Can't really say this about Dwarf Fortress anymore

[-] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

There is a mod to turn it back to ascii tiles.

[-] Malgas@beehaw.org 4 points 5 days ago

Dwarf Fortress actually always had tile graphics. It's just that the default tile set used to look like ASCII.

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this post was submitted on 15 May 2025
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