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Seccurrity risk (slrpnk.net)
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[-] peregrin5@lemm.ee 238 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

They are both security risks. The difference is the SA oligarch has already successfully infiltrated our national security and installed himself in a position of power so we can't do anything about it anymore.

Honestly the way he did it was pretty perfect. Create technology and weapons and R&D for the country you want to infiltrate, ingratiate yourself to it's people, government, and military. Then start throwing money into politics to buy yourself a spot on the cabinet.

This is a game any bad state actor with a huge wad of cash can play thanks to Citizen's United.

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[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 96 points 2 months ago

They are all problematic. My disagreement with the removal of TikTok is that it should not stop with TikTok. Meta's apps are an absolute nightmare. Google, Xitter, Amazon, etc., they all need to be curbed when it comes to data collection.

Data brokering needs to be made illegal or VERY tightly regulated.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 34 points 2 months ago

they all need to be curbed when it comes to data collection.

The problem with TikTok isn't data collection, though. The stated concern of the US government is that TikTok may be used to inflict foreign influence (ie, Woke Mind Virus Communism).

That is, incidentally, why the flood of users to RedNote has been so funny. TikTok's got a bunch of edgy western Zoomers doing "Did You Know Capitalism Is Bad Sometimes?" infographics in between dances. RedNote is just straight up "China Is The Best Country In The World" nature channel style hagiography.

The US pushed millions of Americans out of the frying pan and directly into the fire.

[-] lobut@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 months ago

I don't understand. Twitter was definitely used for that and Musk was "paying" to have people vote republican in Pennsylvania.

Meta paid like 800 million for the Cambridge Analytica scandal.

So like, if they sold to a US company then they'd get wrist slapped too?

[-] ofcourse@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yes, the ban of TikTok has been more about lip service than actual protections for Americans.

The real solution is passing a comprehensive law that fines/bans any app/platform that is opaque about its influence from governments and its data sharing with governments. But who in Congress today has any appetite for real solutions!

I had written about this to my reps and their response was a non response - TikTok bad.

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[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 72 points 2 months ago

I mean, if that’s the question you want answered…

X uses a native browser controller when you open a link, so the app can’t see what you do in there.

Whereas TikTok uses a managed webview… which they have been caught injecting keyloggers into.

Back in the olden days, we called this a cross-site scripting attack.

[-] Venator@lemmy.nz 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Seems like meta were trying something similar with thier replacing all links in Facebook messenger with thier fbrpc://facebook/nativethirdparty?app_id Links, but seems like they gave up on it because it was all broken.

[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 32 points 2 months ago

Yup. They’re all dangerous monsters.

IMO, it doesn’t even matter who’s worse, cuz they’re all bad enough they should all be subject to aggressive regulation with the goal of establishing safe interop off-ramps for people to stop using the services or at least use more trustworthy clients.

In my estimation, TikTok is worse, but that’s not even what the ban is about. It’s because China is spying instead of the US. That’s not a reason to defend TikTok though, or to oppose the government’s decision — cuz they were accidentally right, for the wrong reason.

[-] 0ops@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago

That's where I'm at. If in an alternate universe Congress did something like banning the distribution of harvested data, even just to foreign entities, and TikTok then refused to comply, then I'd be fully in support with them getting banned for it.

Here in the real world though, Congress apparently doesn't have the balls to pass blanket privacy rights like that, because you see, that'd catch some of the wrong fish. I think it says a lot about the state of modern social media that all they were willing to go after TikTok for was something as nebulous as "national security risk".

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[-] Crazyslinkz@lemmy.world 57 points 2 months ago

I find it funny that if TikTok was sold to an American it wouldn't be a security risk anymore.

[-] LucidNightmare@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago

Exactly. I find it hilarious how some of these people conclude that China ONLY gets our data because of TikTok, when our own government and on soil companies sell and shares our data as long as the other (China even lmao) buy it from them. No issues as long as they get money, but if they don’t get the money, it’s “national security” risk.

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[-] Geometrinen_Gepardi@sopuli.xyz 54 points 2 months ago

Because tiktok data goes to China, and China is a competitor/geopolitical adversary to the USA. If tiktok was russian, it would be the same story. Besides, tiktok has been proven to be by far the worst data miner you can download from an app store.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 47 points 2 months ago

Not just a data miner, it has some crazy capabilities that are malicious even by the standards of social media phone apps, which were already explicitly malicious. If I remember right, it can download custom code to augment its capabilities per-target, and has encryption to attempt to thwart any attempt to analyze it, which are both pretty unusual amounts of effort to spend from the POV of "we just want to gather your advertising data and listen to your microphone all the time" which are pretty standard things.

[-] Geometrinen_Gepardi@sopuli.xyz 22 points 2 months ago

Yep, the thing is actual malware which for some reason gets a pass from Google/Apple.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 9 points 2 months ago

That kinda makes Apple and Google malware too IMO, I should really switch to Graphene...

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[-] Redredme@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

Ok, so Bytedance does exactly what Microsoft, Google and Apple do. Got it.

All 3 can and do run arbitrary code on their platforms. All three share your data with third parties. All three encrypt stuff in their codebase and especially google tries it's hardest to break networking standards just to obfuscate what their code is doing.

[-] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That’s just AB testing, downloading over https, and having DRM. Every app on your phone does this, but it sure sounds scary when framed that way.

Every video game you have does the same thing too.

You’re doing the same thing Republicans do when they go into great detail about food ingredients to make salt sound scarier than it is.

Edit: You better also remove this foreign controlled app, targetted at children, that can download new code outside of the app store updates

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 10 points 2 months ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news_but_tbh_if_you_have_tiktiok_just_get/

"There's also a few snippets of code on the Android version that allows for the downloading of a remote zip file, unzipping it, and executing said binary."

Obviously, the app creator can write whatever code they want into the app. If they want to update it, including to run an AB test, they can do a new version.

The only reason for unzipping and executing random binaries on-demand, outside of the normal app update process, is if you want to specifically target one individual or a group of individuals and enable functionality specifically for them that is custom to those particular people. Maybe you just have specific needs for them that aren't served by the overall process, or maybe what you want to install is secret enough that you don't want security researchers getting their hands on it. That second one would be consistent with the obfuscation around even the stock behavior of the app.

I am obviously not talking about HTTPS when I say "encryption to thwart any attempt to analyze it."

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[-] macattack@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

And the PRC have been caught repeatedly running influence campaigns over social media platforms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spamouflage

[-] Redredme@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

China: bad. X/Musk directly and openly interferes in UK and GER politics : move along, nothing to see.

Its such a bullshit argument. Don't be the pot blaming the kettle.

We should ban ALL socials. All. Everything becomes an echochamber after 1-2 years filled with bots, algorithms and Ai. Nothing is trustworthy anymore.

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[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

China buys a ton of data from Zuck and Musk and a lot of other people.

The reason it’s being banned is for cutting out the middle man.

If they actually cared about our data going to geopolitical rivals they’d pass comprehensive privacy protections regardless of where the company is headquartered.

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[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 39 points 2 months ago

Maybe both are bad?

"Facebook should be under incredibly strict regulation or killed outright" is also a position I'm fond of.

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[-] aarRJaay@lemm.ee 37 points 2 months ago

Tiktok aren't giving Trump loads of money

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The CEO has a prominent seat at Trump's inauguration.

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[-] manchicken@infosec.pub 33 points 2 months ago

It's not, there's no evidence that it is, and even if the Chinese were trying to get all of our data they could buy it for far less trouble and expense from any of the American data brokers happy to sell it. They don't need an app to obtain our data, they just need money.

The influence argument is similarly baseless. Cambridge Analytica demonstrated that existing American social media capabilities already permit foreign interference in American public opinion. TikTok is remarkably expensive to run, and the influence campaigns that they could run on Facebook would be much less expensive.

TikTok is competing with American social media companies. It's no better or worse than any other social media company, but because it's not based in the US it's labeled a national security risk. We're happy to let any company collect and sell personal information, so long as they're based in America.

[-] testfactor@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago

Well, the TikTok lawyers kinda said the quiet part out loud during their SCOTUS brief:

Mr. Francisco contended that the government in a free country “has no valid interest in preventing foreign propaganda” and cannot constitutionally try to keep Americans from being “persuaded by Chinese misinformation.” That is targeting the content of speech, which the First Amendment does not permit, he said.

It's not a great look for your app when your argument before the Supreme Court is "yeah, we're a propaganda machine for a hostile foreign power, but free speech says you can't stop us. Neener neener."

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[-] Dupree878@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago

Just something to think about when it comes to the influence social media has on society

TikTok has already transformed how Americans communicate, influencing language and behavior in ways that may have broader implications. The Chinese government, known for using censorship and language control to maintain social order and suppress dissent, leverages euphemistic language as a tool for manipulating public opinion and silencing critical discourse.

Phrases like “unalive” for suicide or “grape” for rape dilute the meaning and impact of language, making it easier for powerful entities to control narratives and obscure uncomfortable truths. This process, known as “language laundering” or “semantic bleaching,” strips words of their emotional weight and original meaning, making it harder to address sensitive or urgent issues effectively.

This trend has extended beyond language to visuals, with people obscuring letters or censoring words in pictures and posts—using terms like “s**cide” or “r*pe.” While this may help users navigate algorithms designed to suppress certain keywords, it completely erodes the clarity and impact of critical conversations.

The normalization of this behavior on TikTok has permeated Facebook, Reddit, Instagram, and other social media platforms, spreading a culture of diluted language and indirect communication. These practices hinder meaningful discourse, desensitize users to serious issues, and ultimately make it more challenging to engage with sensitive topics in a direct and effective manner. Recognizing and resisting this shift is essential to preserving the integrity of public discussions and fostering authentic engagement.

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[-] gmtom@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago

Serious answer: because it's owned by a US citizen and is operated and HQ'd in the US, so the the US government has effectively full control over it and can monitor it.

That's not a lot better from an end user privacy and security point. But is wayyyyyyyyyy better from a national security standpoint.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The US government has no more control over X than regulations permit. They have the exact same amount of control over TikTok operations inside the US.

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[-] Pacattack57@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

This was never about national security. It’s about money. Most of congress owns Meta stock and meta lobbied the fuck out of trying to get the app banned. It’s extremely annoying that people buy this crap about national security.

Ask yourself when in the history of our country did 85% of congress agree on something? 85% of these fuckwads agreed that banning this app is more important than literally anything else. Stopping school shooting, fixing our economy, providing affordable healthcare or housing, are all not important.

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

Ask yourself when in the history of our country did 85% of congress agree on something?

Patriot Act and other government spying laws of course.

[-] AshMan85@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago

They are all a security risk

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 19 points 2 months ago

Look, the problem isn't China getting your data.

The problem is they're not paying a US oligarch for it.

[-] dogsnest@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

No.
No one can explain.

[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 13 points 2 months ago
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[-] AlecSadler@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 months ago

$5 says Elon or Meta buy TT and turn it into yet another GOP echo chamber.

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[-] stinerman@midwest.social 13 points 2 months ago

The cynical answer is that the people who run the government like the South African because he helped them win elections.

[-] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io 11 points 2 months ago

Simple. The South African has a vested interest in keeping the US extant so that he can rule it. The CCP does not share that same interest.

[-] Objection@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 months ago

Lol. Capitalists don't think beyond quarterly profits, they'll strip out the wiring and doom the country and the planet for a quick buck.

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[-] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 2 months ago

Serious question: do you consider it worse to be tracked and profiled by a foreign government or your own?

[-] Zizzy 24 points 2 months ago

I actually consider it way worse when my domestic country is doing it. What is a foreign country gonna do with the information on me? Very little. What can the domestic do? Quite a lot.

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[-] CidVicious@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 months ago

China is an authoritarian government that is able to take direct control of any Chinese company. Like, explicitly. More or less all Chinese companies should be treated with suspicion.

Musk is a shithead but not, to our knowledge, an agent of a foreign hostile government. Turning twitter into a place that promotes hate speech is legally protected free speech, although specific statements that provoke violence may not be protected. Contrary to popular belief, there are many exceptions to free speech.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 9 points 2 months ago

Musk is a shithead but not, to our knowledge, an agent of a foreign hostile government.

Correct. On Monday, he's going to be an agent to a domestic hostile government.

Almost all Lemmy users who happen to be in the US have been blessed so far with a government that generally is okay-ish, has some justice built in, and leaves them alone as long as they're not doing anything wrong. I think that might be about to change, and they're about to experience a China-style "you really have to be careful not to cross the powerful people" system instead.

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[-] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 months ago

One's run by a white guy .... the other is Asian

When it comes to choices in North America ... it always goes to the white guy

If we were in a commercial passenger jet at 30,000 feet and the pilot and co pilot suddenly died and the crew had to choose who should fly the plane .... they'd think twice about the 300 Asian passengers and instead choose the only white guy in first class.

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this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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