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Politics venn (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
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[-] 7eter@feddit.org 75 points 1 week ago
[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 79 points 1 week ago

Most leftists, generally yes.

Doesn't mean they like US style gun culture or obsessed with them. But the system leftists oppose is armed and has/will use those arms upon leftists that gain any significant amount of power.

Arm the oppressed.

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[-] MudMan@fedia.io 68 points 1 week ago

Honestly, the "likes guns" part doesn't work anywhere outside the US, if that. And that includes conservatives.

Internationally I'm pretty sure "hates Trump" would absolutely be in the center, too.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 56 points 1 week ago

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary" - Karl Marx

[-] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 week ago

This quote applies to Marx's time though. When armed workers would have had nearly the same arsenal as a professional military. When horse carriages and trains were the only way to move soldiers at all.

In the age of tanks, jets and missiles, do you seriously believe workers have the slightest chance against a military? It takes a single nuke to crush a revolution that is not supported by the military.

[-] itslilith 29 points 1 week ago

Nukes are, like, the worst example for counter insurgency (COIN). Any government that vaporizes a city of their own people will quickly have the rest of their population in open revolt as well.

And, as proven again and again, classical militaries are horrendously bad at fighting insurgencies that have popular support. There are no front lines, only fighters. Every attempt at suppressing a movement harms bystanders much more than militants, driving more people away from the government.

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[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 20 points 1 week ago

Nukes didn't help that CEO. Asymmetric warfare is a thing. I want to think there is a totally peaceful solution, and maybe there is. But even peaceful solutions only work with a silent threat of armed revolt in the background.

[-] Juice@midwest.social 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Who won the Vietnam War? It is not at all clear that the US military could defeat a committed domestic guerrilla force. Especially if the military was split on the nature of the conflict. A bloodless political revolution is possible and there's historical precedent for it wrt socialist movements, although expect a civil war of some kind. The fallacy that socialists just want to wage a bloody civil war in order to get free healthcare is so tired and fake and divorced from anything but liberal delusions.

Also the arms are needed to defend the political and social revolution, which will be directly attacked by armed thugs and reactionaries if it managed to gain traction toward actually upending the capitalist system. Look up The Deacons of Defense and the history of defending civil rights orgs and leaders, while kicking the Klan out of southern mainstream political life. Its not optional. However individuals armed is meaningless, there needs to be civil defense groups and left wing militias to be able to actually protect the people that need protected when they become targets of attack.

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[-] skulbuny@sh.itjust.works 36 points 1 week ago

A fascist has a gun and your minority neighbor doesn't. The fascist will get their gun illegally if necessary to spread fascism. Do you trust law enforcement to be the shield for minorities against gun-wielding fascists?

[-] Deathmonger@lemmings.world 35 points 1 week ago

Kinda have to, since none of the "leftist" ideologies has any chance of hell of being bought into action without revolution.

Since revolution requires some degree of violence, and established states have access to not just man portable firearms, but bigger guns as well, then attempting to use violence to change said state without access to firearms is what you might call dumb. You might call it suicidal. You might call it a form of Darwinism whereby the truly stupid leftists get killed off by whatever government they're going at so that the non-stupid leftists that are left breed smarter babies that will then realize that without equal access to arms, no populace can revolt.

I guess you don't have to like guns. It is possible to dislike something immensely and still use it as a tool. Like toothpaste. It tastes weird, it's not fun to use, but without it, you have no teeth eventually. Guns are like toothpaste, your squeeze them and weird things come out, but at least your teeth are clean.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 27 points 1 week ago

To make a revolution you need the people on your side, not guns specifically. The bastille was torn down by hand. Just look at the USA 6 jan. They didn't need guns, and thats fu-king USA!

If you needed guns to make a revolution, you'd probably need RPGs and tanks too.

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[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 45 points 1 week ago

I like any political map that triangulates liberals from the left and right.

And I love any one that properly omits libertarians.

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[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 41 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Leftist here: I swear to fuck if I hear one more Tankie put a "Trump winning is actually a good thing because Kamela's literally the same person as Trump" card on the table with a "Actually North Korea is this amazing paradise and EVERYONE ON THE FUCKING PLANET is just pretending it's awful. Source: Trust me bro!" stat booster

So help me God I will.... Roll my eyes and drown my sorrows in another round of Dead By Daylight where I hope to find a Joshua in the lobby because I'm a Killer Main...

Seriously, why can't we have unity like the Rightists do? I mean they just point and say "Look! It's a gay!", they all form in a line.

If I point and say "Look! It's a fascist!", the whole squad starts pointing at each other and somehow I'm "cancelled for being a rape apologist" because the way I pointed was actually a dog whistle because it vaguely resembled the ancient Anti-Black symbol called "Ligma" popularized in the year 19Dickety2 in response to white men being annoyed that black people could afford chewing gum or something... Which obviously everyone totally knows is a real thing!

I just want us to ya know, save the fucking world from Neolibs and Literal Nazis before we start doing purity tastes on each other. Like, can we wait to do the "Everyone in the group gets chronic backstab syndrome." shit AFTER we win?

I mean fuck the Deadly Alliance had the fucking patience to wait till they killed the main cast, Raiden included, before that shit.. and they're literally Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, the exact two people I expect to constantly lose Among Us by reporting each other when they're both the Imposter! In a SELF-REPORT! Because I'm reliving all of my negative experiences with other socialists, and when I'm angry I try to make the nerdiest references I can make while still ensuring there's a chance for others to get them.

starts frothing, dies of self-inflicted rabies

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I haven't seen anyone say Trump winning is a good thing, nor have I seen anyone say the DPRK is a paradise (closest to that is people saying the DPRK has living standards around the level of Cuba these days). Where are you finding these people at significant enough numbers to cause you anguish? Legitimate question here, you're calling for Left Unity but it seems like you're misframing others at best, which goes against that ideal.

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[-] Deathmonger@lemmings.world 25 points 1 week ago

I would heap written abuse upon you, but it's true

Wait, why do leftists hate leftists?

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 76 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's a joke, but "leftist" is such a wide term that it encompasses groups which don't really want to do much with each other, such as anarchists, bernie-bros, and ~red fash~ ~tankies~ marxist-leninists. Anarchists tend to not hate anarchists for example.

[-] drolex@sopuli.xyz 42 points 1 week ago

No I don't disagree with you! But you are still somewhat wrong! Hey social traitor, I'm splitting and creating my own leftist memes! These will be actual trotskyist memes, unlike your bourgeoisie-tainted memes!

rinse and repeat

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[-] DJDarren@thelemmy.club 25 points 1 week ago

Most conservatives are able to band together regardless of whether another of them is too racist, or too capitalist. They're able to look past flaws in that regard.

Meanwhile, we lefties fight among ourselves for not being left enough, or for being too left. It's why there are very few leftist governments.

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 1 week ago

Nonsense. conservatives inflight and even kill each other all the fucking time. This is a myth promoted by "left unity" leftists, and "big tent" libs to force everyone to follow them.

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[-] PanArab@lemm.ee 22 points 1 week ago

Both liberals and conservatives are right wing (capitalists).

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[-] JokeDeity@lemm.ee 20 points 1 week ago

As a leftist... I can't say I see a flaw here.

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[-] GhiLA@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

What do liberals like?

I'm only told what they dislike. I even know what conservatives like, that's an easy answer. Liberals, I haven't a clue.

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 1 week ago

Given their recent electoral strategies, they mostly expect to be elected for not being Trump/conservative.

[-] EldritchFeminity 29 points 1 week ago

It's an effective strategy, up to a point. "Vote for me because I'm not the guy you hate" is one of the oldest political strategies around. And Democrats have even openly said that they've been funding the most extremist right-wing candidates on the ballot for years to set up easy wins when people think their opponent is a nutjob. There was a lady who even wrote a book about how she won an election doing this. And then she lost to that same extremist in the very next election. Because what they've actually done is push the Overton Window further and further into extremism.

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[-] Juice@midwest.social 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

They like progress that happened in the past, and they like stories about that progress where an individual, not a movement, fought for what was right and the individuals in charge of the system, now aware that it was hurting people, changed voluntarily without political struggle or mass organizing.

They like voting in parliamentary representative elections, even if every step of that election is rigged to benefit the rich capitalist class, in fact this is the only kind of democracy they like.

They like the feeling that words like freedom, justice, liberty bring. They like ideals, in fact they are total idealists who dont understand that progress should be based on more than ideas. Change does begin with an idea, but so does reaction.

They like to believe that there is no such thing as class.

They like experts and repeating the opinions of experts, and they like to not think about from what institutions and incentives exist to bestow expertise.

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[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago
[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago

Leftists ruined leftism

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 week ago

Leftists necessarily fall into different ideological frameworks and camps, like Anarchism and Marxism, because they oppose the existing order. These camps often have fundamental disagreements, such as Marxists supporting full Public Ownership and Central Planning while Anarchists support full Horizontalism and Decentralization.

Right-wingers get by on having irrational, contradictory stances of loose structure because it fundamentally doesn't matter, right wing ideology is the Global Hegemon and status quo so it supports itself regardless of rationality.

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[-] nifty@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I like guns and some parts of capitalism, I like some ideas from the ML people and anarchists. The complete evolution of human thought and philosophy is worthy of consideration without bias or prejudice.

Addendum not racial supremacy, though

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[-] kittenzrulz123 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As a Leftist there are a few types of leftists I hate

  • Fake Leftists: People who think Socialism is when "government does stuff" and they just want the government to do everything
  • Ignorant Leftists: People who blindly hate capitalism but make no real attempt to look into leftist theory
  • "Anti-imperalists": People who support "anti-imperialism" by supporting the other empire. These people will blindly support Russia, China, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, the Taliban, Assad's Syria, HTS, and occasionally blatant terrorism.
  • Aesthetic "Leftists": People who see leftism as nothing more than an aesthetic which they can use. They make no real attempt to understand leftism but rather then simply being ignorent they actively attempt to subvert the term. These people will say "leftism just means left of center" and use that to justify Capitalism, western imperialism, and other very non leftist ideals under the justification that "leftism has no hard definition" (it does).
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this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2024
673 points (100.0% liked)

Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

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If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

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