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Ukraine’s Zelensky on ‘horrible’ Hamas attack: ‘Israel’s right to self-defense is unquestionable’ (www.timesofisrael.com)

submitted 2 years ago by LaFinlandia@sopuli.xyz to c/ukraine@sopuli.xyz

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[-] ilmagico@lemmy.world 82 points 2 years ago

"Every life is valuable! We condemn all forms of terrorism"

Zelenski has to walk a fine line ... on one end, he needs support from Israel, on the other, he knows Israel is an occupier just like Russia, so he cannot even show too much support. And so, he condemn "all forms of terrorism", implying that Ukraine, unlike Hamas, is not resorting to (too much) terrorism to fight back ... between a rock and a hard place there.

Or he could just condemn Israel and lose their support, in exchange for "the moral high ground" and avoiding hypocrisy, but that never won any war. I don't envy him.

[-] CaptainPickle@startrek.website 21 points 2 years ago

Man what a game of political minesweeper eh fucking hell

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

Seems like the whole conflict was created by English who promised both Jews and Palestinians the same land when they help them.

[-] ilmagico@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

I don't doubt it, but based on UN resolutions, there is clearly only one country occupying another.

[-] qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

The English cannot blame the french invaders in 1066 for their land problems. At some point, a generation or so, imo, your problems are your own. You night not have created them but you can sure choose to solve them or not.

The people living in Gaza are not savages, they are capable of sophisticated governance. They choose not to exercise that faculty and instead voted and continue to approve of violence and never-ending revenge.

[-] Spzi@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago

I think the implication is rather that he equates invaders with terrorists. Of course Ukraine has the right to fight back, which is not terrorism.

So maybe he drew the parallel differently, placing Ukraine on one side with Israel.

[-] bouh@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

He calls Russia terrorist because they engage in a war of terror, attacking the citizens of Ukraine purposefully rather than sticking to military objectives.

[-] Spzi@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago

Right, he's not calling Russia terrorists simply for invading and attacking, but for how they do it. Thanks.

I still think the comparison is rather Ukraine/Israel vs Russia/Hamas, especially since both Hamas and Russia purposefully attack civilians.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 38 points 2 years ago

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/8/ukraines-zelenskyy-and-israels-netanyahu-discuss-israeli-support-for-kyiv

Sad, but not unsurprising that Israel would demand press releases like this for aid.

[-] avater@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago

on the other hand, russia has asked both to cease fire immediately...the irony in that is beyond anything

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

Hamas had recent visits with Moscow. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they had something to do with it, to distract west from Ukraine.

[-] avater@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Do you have a source for that?

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/high-level-hamas-delegation-visits-moscow-at-russias-invitation/#

There were also multiple meetings last year.

[-] Ulara@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 years ago

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230316-hamas-sent-high-level-delegation-to-moscow-at-russias-invitation/

[-] LWJanniesRCucks@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

Meds Now

[-] Spzi@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago

Invader proposes to accept the new borders.

Invadee proposes to restore original borders.

Sounds like normal things to say in either position

[-] TheBlue22 28 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I don't think Zelensky has a choice in this matter, Israel provides aid and Ukraine needs all the support it can get.

Also fuck Hamas. I am not pro Israel, I think what they do in Gaza could and should be called a genocide, but Hamas is not helping matters. They are using innocent palestinians as human shields and keeping themselves in power with nothing but violence.

[-] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 2 years ago

Ah so Palestinians are allowed to die by Israeli hands but Israeli are not allowed to die by Palestinian hands in Zelensky’s eyes. Okay, got it.

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

I mean from the videos recorded by militants themselves. It is really hard to support them.

Frankly they fucked Palestinians with this move and will be really hard to get international support.

[-] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I’m not sure who you mean regards the support (English isn’t my native language).

However if you meant, it is hard to support Palestinians due to what’s happening now. That’s hypocrisy.

I don’t agree with the murdering and all. However, Israel have been doing that for decades and decades (killing men, woman and children. Stealing homes, closing water, electricity and basic needs) and no one bat an eye to it. Now Hamas striking back and it is all bad?

Certainly is bad however not unsurprising. People will fight back.

EDIT: I think, I have misunderstood what you said. Let me know if that is the case.

[-] Sowhatever@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 2 years ago

That was bad and this is bad. Two things can be bad and saying the second one is bad doesn't means the first one is good.

[-] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago

I don’t really understand what you mean by that.

[-] GentlemanLoser@ttrpg.network 7 points 2 years ago

What you meant to say is you don't WANT to understand

[-] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago

If that is what you think, that’s okay.

[-] Sowhatever@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago

Two wrongs don't make a right

[-] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Oh, that way. That’s indeed true. But it is very understandable that if one is being oppressed for decades, they will eventually fight back and return everything that’s been done to them.

It’s sad but reality.

For example, why is okay for Ukraine to fight back but not for Palestine to do the same? Both get oppressed, are losing land and their own folk. Yet people complain mainly about Palestine fighting back and not about Ukraine fighting back.

I, personally just find it odd that people are okay with Ukraine siding with Israel in the name of “they are allowed to defend themselves!” But when Palestine is fighting back to defend themselves and fighting for their own right to live - that’s not okay.

It is hypocrisy for Zelensky to be okay with Israel oppressing Palestine but finding it not okay for Russia doing the same exact thing to his own country.

Two wrongs doesn’t make it right, right? So that would mean that it isn’t okay for Israel to oppress Palestine for decades as well.

EDIT: Not that I care about downvotes on Lemmy, however it seems that majority here supports Israel which is genuinely sad to see.

[-] Sowhatever@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago

Ukraine doesn't gun down shelters and cafés full of civilians and parades mutilated bodies of tourists through the streets.

That's why people support Ukraine and criticize Palestine.

[-] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago

But I don’t see people criticize Israel for decades of oppression on Palestinian people. That seems to be normalized by everyone nowadays.

What do you expect? Palestinian people to just be like “okay, kill us go ahead”?

Did people forget that Zelensky knew that Russia would wage war on them and he kept this a secret all along because he knew people would leave the country?

[-] Sowhatever@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago

People (including myself) are criticizing Israel EVERYWHERE ad nauseam. Bringing UN resolutions (vetoed by the US), protesting on the streets, ranting on the internet, wearing t-shirts, donating to NGOs...

Everybody knew Russia would wage war on them, there were satellite images published for weeks before Feb 24th, which of course Russia denied. Is /r/RussiaDenies a thing on lemmy yet?

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

People do criticize Israel, but this recent Hamas attack made it hard to do right now.

[-] ilmagico@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

No, it's just that Zelensky has to lick Netanyahu's behind to beg for aid. Sad but true

[-] 100_percent_a_bot@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

That's very much not true, Ukraine not yet received any aid from Israel.

[-] ilmagico@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Right, but they want to.

[-] 100_percent_a_bot@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

That's never going to happen, especially now there's no way that Israel sends military aid any time soon. Even before that, Russia was and still is pretty important for Isreal which is putting them in a very awkward spot when it comes to the war in Ukraine.

[-] Five@slrpnk.net 7 points 2 years ago

[-] loops@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It was either support Israel, or lose access to their weapons. I'm sure if Palestine was the oppressor with military superiority, he would support them. Of course, whether or not he personally supports Israel's regime is unknown to us, but we do know he needs their weapons.

[-] CleoTheWizard@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

No I think it has more to do with US and EU positions. He will parrot their opinions because he wants to be seen as an ally. Add that to the support he’s already getting from that region and the answer is that he isn’t allowed a real opinion here