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Nearly all stories told are reflective of the propaganda culture of the era. Justifying the cult of billionaire exceptionalism has been the theme for a long time.
This is the cop vs firefighter superhero discussion.
Batman is a cop. The very DNA of the character is almost entirely about fighting crime. His origin starts with a violent crime. Sure he'll save people (the end of the last movie he saves people from a flood) but mostly he's working on crime.
Superman works best as a firefighter. He's rescuing people, controlling and mitigating damage, etc... His origin story is a global catastrophe. He will get into fights, but mostly in service of mitigating damage. He will stop crime, but mostly in service of safety. His main villain isn't a guy who can fight him (generally speaking).
Most characters and stories have a bit of each.
From a screenwriting perspective, an antagonist can provide escalation and give a voice to the challenges the protagonist faces. It's just a very good tool. A Batman movie where he's just getting people out of a burning building (for example) might work, but it would feel off somehow.
Survivor of crime becomes crime-fighter, survivor of catastrophe saves people from disasters.
"Be the person you needed when you were younger" feels applicable.
THIS, EXACTLY THIS.
I find it strange to call today's supers "heroes" when the least they do is help others. They look more like guys with superpowers beating each other up, more like Japanese Shonen than anything else (mind you, I like Shonen, but there's a limit).
That's why I love that in The Batman (2022) the climax is seeing Batman saving civilians, the same with James Gunn's Superman.
I WANT TO SEE MORE SUPERHEROES BEING HEROIC, DAMN IT.
*Shonen. That is all.
Isn’t it shounen?
It's 少年. How you want to transliterate that into our alphabet is open to interpretation.
It's both, and also shōnen, it's got several recognized romanizations
The correct transliteration of the Japanese word would be shounen, but as an English loanword both are in use.
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I recently watched that Superman movie and liked it. I couldn't figure out exactly why, but I think it is because he's helping others.
I was a bit hesitant prior because of MCU fatigue, but I'm glad I watched it. MCU ended for me at whenever Thanos was truly defeated. I can't even remember the movie.
I've always felt that superhero stories reduce problems to something that can be solved through violence and, for that reason, dont really like them. After a while, the plots all seem the same, too.
Jessica Jones season 1 was good in this regard. A problem and a villain that can't easily be handled by just throwing punches.
The Watchmen is another good one that has less focus on just punching bad guys.
Completely agree that it is problematic that when your basic story is about super strong individuals, then the only story you will write is about problems that can be solved with violence. No one wants to watch a movie of the Hulk doing shifts to rotate a turbine to generate clean electricity.
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There is a reason that I have fallen asleep during the extended 3rd act fight scene in every single god damn marvel movie since Mark Ruffalo became the Hulk.
They all turn into the same movie, with the same fight. And these super long fights all seem to be surprisingly light on showing any of the actual real world impacts of such violence. Nobody ever gets seriously hurt unless the plot needs more sacrifice. But even when they do, the injuries mostly happen off camera and the blood never flows or spurts, it just instantly appears as makeup. It's really giving people a deep rooted and totally unfounded sense that violence both solves every problem (it doesn't) and does so bloodlessly (it doesn't). At least Batman knows he's not a hero.
But really, the DC universe isn't much better. Think about how shocking a little bit of blood at the beginning of the new Superman movie was, before they basically destroy metropolis (which was rather expected and mundane). And then they only show the tiny fraction of people personally saved by Superman, not the countless mangled corpses buried under rubble. This may be why the public has trouble confronting the realities of war and violence.
I think that's why I really like Invincible. I know it's not live action superheroes, but I think it does a good job of showing how much destruction and devastation these superhero fights cause. I'm not big on Marvel or DC, but I do have a soft spot for Batman.
Marvel has been following a dry formula since Avengers Infinity War, arguably before that.
It's not just superheroes. There are so many movies that boil down to whoever punches harder wins and it's always the good guy. I find myself asking, *is this a punching movie" quite a lot. They all try and spin it to be about family or overcoming the odds or even try to blur the line between good and evil. Unfortunately in the end the protagonist punches harder and the story ends, "zzzzz".
Don't even get me started on ridiculous ones; like Spider man becoming a literally a spider, then felt an instinct to come up to the Spider Queen offering himself to be eaten, then the Spider Queen's stomach burst open only for a new and shiny Peter Parker/Spiderman come out alive as if he had never become a spider. Then, there is Batman becoming addicted to drugs and telling Alfred to lock him up in the Batcave for weeks to detox.
This is why I generally only read critically acclaimed plot lines and stories than having a general comic interests.
Villains sell toys and merch. You can't make an action figure of the public
In project management, we call it "scope creep." Day one, the job is to use your newfound powers for good. Maybe stop a mugging. Day two, catch a bad guy. Day 3, try to balance life and your secret identity while foiling a bank heist. Day 200, you're negotiating with an interdimensional cosmic deity for the survival of the Universe by demonstrating feats of strength and fortitude.
Have you watched Thunderbolts and the new Superman? They do actually rescue people (Superman way more).
I was thinking in the theater while watching Thunderbolts: "Huh, a scene where the heroes are rescuing people? I haven't seen that in a long time."
Superman even saved a squirrel. 🤩
Eh, most of the old school titles are just too 'Soap Opera ish' for me. It's was supposed to be action and adventure and mystery with good art. Last 2 decades, it's become people coming back from the dead, clones, ridiculous story lines that have nothing to do with the original character.
It's ridiculous.
Indie books and limited series are my go to now. Even those start to run out of gas if they are kept around too long.
You should read Parahumans:Worm by Wildbow. The best superhero story I have ever read, and it's completely free! :)
The variety and use cases for all the different powers are especially interesting.
Worm also has far and away the best in-world explanation of why everyone puts up with the cops and robbers BS as well. It's just so freakin good.
I just hope at some point they'll be able to reformat/release it as an ebook or something. I know a lot of people get turned off by it being on wordpress. ( I know there's at least one unofficial one but still. )
!worm@lemmy.blahaj.zone
This has been a problem for far, far, longer than you think. The silver age definitely had it, the golden age probably did, and I wouldn't be surprised if it cropped up in the proto-superhero stories, like Zorro. It's a consequence of having a long-form story where the narrative's status quo isn't allowed to meaningfully change and characters either aren't allowed to die or aren't allowed to stay dead. Recurring antagonists also can have much richer characterization and more complex relationships with the protagonists, which makes writing stories about them more appealing the more often they appear.
The usual trajectory for a new superhero or new incarnation of an existing superhero is to start off with street-level problems, then get a nemesis that has strong ties to those street level problems, then have the dynamic between the two grow in prominence to eclipse all other parts of the plot. The Joker, for instance, always starts off as either a mob boss with a gimmick or a serial killer with a gimmick, not far removed from the mundane crime Batman always starts with, but always winds up with a fixation on Batman and spawns stories designed as some commentary on Batman's no-killing rule. Again and again and again, dozens of times over the decades.
Why? Because the dynamic between the two characters tends to be fascinating and results in audience engagement.
What about villains then? Are they still all about bank heists and murdering everyone in the city, or have they shifted to hunting superheroes now? I’m asking because I don’t watch those movies.
There's now story points about villains created by the superheroes who's entire mission is to kill the superheroes in revenge.
Oh wow. The whole superhero genre is really evolving in a strange direction.
I just hate the trend that people want to make villains more generic evil. like how much shit ultraman got for the prescreening when he hits krypto thats actively fighting him. HES A VILLAIN, HES NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD.
I guess that's why people like spiderman most? His constant struggle with the villain because he need to juggle between beating villain and saving civilians. If he just went anti-hero he's pretty much formidable.
It helps that he starts as a normal guy / kid, not ridiculously rich or an alien. And that he's not overpowered.
Superman and Lois.
Almost every episode has a scene where he flies off to help people across the globe.
I like how Invincible addresses this. He tries to save people but it always ends disastrously because normal people break really easily when handled by someone with super strength and speed. His best bet is to take out the villain that is the source of danger.
Invincible has some of that. Going out of his way to save people at the cost of his personal life. Lots of fighting and gore ofc, but still seems a lot more heroic than a lot of Marvel heroes atp.
He also reflects on the people he couldn't save or that the hurt while trying to do good.
I recommend two good videos about superhero movies.
1 - Defenders of the Status Quo
2 - The people vs Clark Kent
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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2025
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Showerthoughts
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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:
- Both “200” and “160” are 2 minutes in microwave math
- When you’re a kid, you don’t realize you’re also watching your mom and dad grow up.
- More dreams have been destroyed by alarm clocks than anything else
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