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She finds the whole idea absurd. To Prof Marci Shore, the notion that the Guardian, or anyone else, should want to interview her about the future of the US is ridiculous. She’s an academic specialising in the history and culture of eastern Europe and describes herself as a “Slavicist”, yet here she is, suddenly besieged by international journalists keen to ask about the country in which she insists she has no expertise: her own. “It’s kind of baffling,” she says.

In fact, the explanation is simple enough. Last month, Shore, together with her husband and fellow scholar of European history, Timothy Snyder, and the academic Jason Stanley, made news around the world when they announced that they were moving from Yale University in the US to the University of Toronto in Canada. It was not the move itself so much as their motive that garnered attention. As the headline of a short video op-ed the trio made for the New York Times put it, “We Study Fascism, and We’re Leaving the US”.

Starkly, Shore invoked the ultimate warning from history. “The lesson of 1933 is: you get out sooner rather than later.” She seemed to be saying that what had happened then, in Germany, could happen now, in Donald Trump’s America – and that anyone tempted to accuse her of hyperbole or alarmism was making a mistake. “My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’ I thought, my God, we’re like people on the Titanic saying, ‘Our ship can’t sink. We’ve got the best ship. We’ve got the strongest ship. We’ve got the biggest ship.’ And what you know as a historian is that there is no such thing as a ship that can’t sink.”

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[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 29 points 5 days ago

My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’

Er, no, America, you don't have checks and balances. Not any more. Have you not been paying attention? That stuff is GONE.

[-] leadore@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

Um, that's exactly what she was saying.

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[-] ninjabard@lemmy.world 109 points 6 days ago

Must be nice to be financially stable enough to run away.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 53 points 6 days ago

An academic who's job is is to know these things is spending the money to do it. That's the take away here. They're the Canary in the Coal Mine.

[-] Upgrayedd1776@sh.itjust.works 7 points 6 days ago

yeah, you got the same vibe from the political professors that Jon Stewart had on his podcast last week. Just depressed and resigned.

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

All the ways to escape that didn't require lots of money are all long gone

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[-] bstix@feddit.dk 6 points 5 days ago

How did you get financially trapped?

People in the rest of the western world and also mostly elsewhere in the entire world can actually travel.

What do you have to lose if you can't walk away from where you are? You already lost your freedom and can no longer go anywhere else, because finances? In the richest country in the world?

If I ever find myself in that kind of serfdom without a dime in my pocket, I will put on my shoes and start walking.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 15 points 5 days ago

It may shock you know that even in the richest country in the world there are homeless people. There are people who live paycheck to paycheck. There are many people who a single unexpected expense would ruin.

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[-] enthusiasticamoeba@lemmy.ml 16 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

If I ever find myself in that kind of serfdom without a dime in my pocket, I will put on my shoes and start walking.

...Okay Denmark.

[-] bstix@feddit.dk 6 points 5 days ago

I know of people in Denmark who walked by foot from Syria during the last refugee exodus. They came to Denmark from Norway, because they crossed the border in the arctic between Russia to Norway.

Try to plot that route into your map and then go on complaining about strolling through a few states in USA.

[-] Bilaketari@reddthat.com 9 points 5 days ago

Lol. You're getting replies from people so complacent with their lifestyles that they can't fathom the effort of just walking away from everything and starting up elsewhere. Literally millions of people have walked across continents in the last decade to live in places with better opportunities, but these people'll find any excuse to say that that's not possible for whatever reason, but really just because it's a type of change they are unwilling (not unable) to make and they want to make themselves feel better by saying/believing all that isn't a real option for them.

[-] Zenith@lemm.ee 6 points 5 days ago

I doubt those people would be doing all that walking if they had any better option. It’s easy to leave when there’s nothing to leave

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[-] Zenith@lemm.ee 5 points 5 days ago

Most people are just born into it

[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

This is such a boomer answer

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[-] MintyFresh@lemmy.world 122 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

That's a shit lesson to take from 33. My takeaway is don't let the brown shirts win. I'm not running from my country with my tail between my legs.

Fascists can fuck off, in fact ~~70~~ 7 millions just assembled to say just that.

Edit: I didn't think staying in my country of birth and fighting for freedom and decency would be such a hot button issue.

To all of you who felt the need to be condescending I'd just say tighten up and show some backbone. Real disappointing. So you may be shot and sent to a gulag. You wouldn't be the first, probably not the last. Try not to let fear and righteousness dictate your feelings.

[-] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 75 points 6 days ago

If you read the rest of the article, she addresses that. She doesn't believe that she is personally brave enough to physically confront what is coming, so for her, the choice is get out now while she can and be vocal.

[-] cannedtuna@lemmy.world 46 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Not sure where your getting that 70 million number, but according to Wikipedia it was some 5 million.

Not to criticize, but I think it’s important not to spread inaccuracies and over inflate turnout numbers like a certain someone likes to do.

Edit: Lemmy post with final count numbers on attendance. Looks like it’s a bit larger than initially thought, which is fantastic!

[-] kn33@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago

Another takeaway from that article: 7 of the top 10 were during Trump's presidency.

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[-] TotallynotJessica 32 points 6 days ago

The brown shirts have the keys to the kingdom, and so there's no easy way to get rid of them. By my count they've already won, and will be able to do a depressing amount of damage before anyone could hope to stop them. If you're a vulnerable group who has the opportunity to leave and isn't ready to die fighting, leaving is the safest bet.

[-] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 30 points 6 days ago

The Nazis did eventually lose, but look what it took to do it. Millions of people died on both sides. The best defense is to not allow them any power, but they already control the most powerful military in the history of the world.

At this point, leaving is a credible option, if you have it. Unfortunately, unless you are wealthy, have a large business, or are incredibly intelligent in a field they want, most of us won't be welcome any where else.

[-] katze@lemmy.cafe 26 points 6 days ago

I’m not running from my country with my tail between my legs.

That sounds cool if your objective is to collect likes on social media. However, her objective is to save herself and her family from what’s coming. As "an academic specialising in the history and culture of eastern Europe," she knows very well what it is. Only an ignorant and arrogant prick could say what you said.

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[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 14 points 6 days ago

I mean that's certainly fair, but with the vast majority of America either supporting the fascists or dragging its feet (cue "we can't give them an excuse to do a fascism!!!!") "fuck this shit I'm outta here" is, honestly, pretty valid.

[-] Harlehatschi@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 days ago

But going peacefully on the streets is only successful if the government you want to send a message to is listening, i.e. if it either cares for their citizens or is in any way rational.

I hope I'm wrong here, but I can't see anything changing for the better in your country. It currently looks like 70 million people trying to talk through a knife fight.

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[-] IraanOzonjo@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago

I left, but am completely dependent on my US Social Security retirement, which I paid into my whole working life. What if the fascists shut it down? 72 year old homeless wandering the world?

[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I also left, absolutely no regrets. The US was holding me back and it was dangerous for me to live there. But I still tear up every time I think about the community I left behind

[-] nkat2112@sh.itjust.works 87 points 6 days ago

She did her part by educating us and it's obvious she'll be among the first to be targeted. It only makes sense that she should flee.

I, for one, am grateful that she spoke the truth in that NYT opinion piece.

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 24 points 6 days ago

Right? I don’t get people here mocking her for leaving. The first people to be removed or “disappeared” in fascists states are the bogeymen “others” - the foreigners, the ones that are easy targets and can’t fight back. The next ones are the obvious liberal dissenters. First the regular people, the scientists and liberal teachers, the students, then the liberal politicians. The smart people are always targeted.

[-] thingAmaBob@lemmy.world 60 points 6 days ago

As others have already commented, not everyone can just leave. Also, if we could all leave, who would take so many USA immigrants?

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[-] z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 68 points 6 days ago

I don't blame people for running, but personally I've always found that Fighting Fascism is a Fine Hill to Die On.

[-] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago

To be honest, I'd be perfectly willing to die on much smaller, less impactful hills. Some days I feel like dying in a valley, far away from anything, but then I see some real bullshit going on and get mightily pissed off.

What I'm saying is, dying isn't the worst thing you can do in life.

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[-] UncleGrandPa@lemmy.world 19 points 5 days ago

I have been telling people.... Run. Now. If you can't, make sure you are set up to run at a moment's notice. Money, passport , whatever is needed

IN WW22 Germany the only ones who survived... Got out at the beginning

[-] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 30 points 6 days ago

Not everyone has the option but those who do and are at risk and know they can't bring upon any positive change by staying, should leave.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 11 points 5 days ago

Yeah. My sister's spouse is NB and they have significant means. I encourage them to leave with my nephew because I want them all safe.

I'm a white, male, Christian gun-owner. I can blend in for now and don't have the same financial resources. I'm also single and childless, so I can also care for my parents who are blind to what's happening.

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[-] Kickforce@lemmy.wtf 4 points 5 days ago

When all the ones who are disgusted leave, you are left with only those who are disgusting. Not my words but somehow they apply again.

[-] Monstrosity@lemm.ee 45 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

"I'm affluent with the privilege & means to escape when I know it's going to go bad &, trust me, it's going to get bad.

Anyways, good luck, suckers!"

[-] MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 53 points 6 days ago

She's using her position to educate, raise awareness, and validate the alarm several people are feeling. This is possibly the most impactful thing she can do at the moment. She is standing up and pointing out fascism. I guess she could stay after having done that, but then you get people going "if it's so bad then why don't you leave?!" And then she's at even more risk of being disappeared. She is uprooting her family and life and in the process displaying how sincerely she believes that we're headed down the wrong path. Is she doing it for her own benefit, yea, sure, but this article imho is more impactful than her going to a protest. I've sent it to some of my more normie friends already because we were just talking about this and they really don't realize how bad things are already. They think I'm fear mongering. This article might help people realize what the reality is and take direct action that they didn't think was necessary at this point. Is it cowardly to leave? Maybe. But she didn't have to speak out, she could have left quietly, but she chose to make a statement. That's more than a lot of people will end up doing, regardless of if they stay or not.

[-] Ajen@sh.itjust.works 7 points 6 days ago

Why would you want to do something useful or productive when you could be making sarcastic posts on social media instead?

[-] Supervisor194@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago

This, exactly. And running to Canada. Like fleeing the coming Nazi Germany by emigrating to Poland. Congratulations, you accomplished almost nothing.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

Almost nothing? Canada might be sliding itself but I'm pretty sure it's still way safer than the US

[-] kerntucky@infosec.pub 16 points 6 days ago

I think the Poland reference was insinuating that the US might invade Canada.

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[-] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 21 points 6 days ago

Why would she flee to Canada? If she knows what happened in 1930s Germany then she knows what happened to their neighbours a few years later, right?

[-] match@pawb.social 14 points 6 days ago

Suppose she can keep running

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[-] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

Albert Einstein left Germany too. However, I have heard it was more about money and the fucking Nazis were the number 2 reason.

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[-] rodneyck@piefed.social 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Problem is, Canada has strict immigration laws, so I assume she 1. used her prestigious degrees and CN accepted her immigration immediately for a teaching job or 2. she is there illegally for the next 5 years (I think that is how long it takes there.) Illegally means no health coverage, jobs that pay cash only, etc. It is easy to cross the borders, it is another thing entirely when you need to find work.

[-] Fjdybank@lemmy.ca 13 points 6 days ago
[-] rodneyck@piefed.social 9 points 6 days ago

Did you actually read the requirements or just post the CN immigration site? The "Express Program" which is the only fast track, 3yrs instead of 5yrs of a path to citizenship, requires either a job offer to higher education requirements, such as a BA, to qualify, or as they put it gain more points (it is a point system.) A lot of people will not qualify for this. Again, legally immigrating is not easy.

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this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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