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submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by BomberMan9865@sh.itjust.works to c/asktransgender

Has anyone here heard of it before, if so what are your opinions on it? I'm curious to hear what you have to say because I've mentioned it in the past and have received hostility from people either saying I'm crazy or that I'm "making fun of trans people".

I think some people deny that I really have it but I'm certain that is what I have since I literally have phantom limb sensations from a tail that I just don't have, including phantom pain which really sucks actually.

I just wanted to talk about this a bit. I'm not sure if this is the right community but the otherkin communities are very empty.

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[-] hildegarde 9 points 3 days ago

I try not to have opinions on things I do not understand.

No matter how strange or unfamiliar something may be, if it makes you more comfortable and harms no one else, I have no concerns.

I don't have an opinion on this, and I don't need one.

[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Species dysphoria is a real thing. It's weird, I don't know why it exists, but I know it's real because I experience it. I have friends who experience it. I don't understand why people choose to gatekeep over something they don't understand.

Especially other trans people.

Like, damn, you're not gonna win over the people who hate trans people by giving them a peace offering of throwing people under the bus. Just accept that some people may find their species to be dysphoria-inducing like some people find their gender to be dysphoria-inducing. Why is it that hard?

Edit: I'll be honest, I don't think that species dysphoria makes you transgender, I think that's a misapplication of the gender concept; like trying to classify a fish as a mammal. You absolutely still count as trans imo tho.

[-] BomberMan9865@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 days ago

I agree, it is very weird for people to try and cater to transphobic/queerphobic people by throwing other queer or trans people under the bus. Bigots aren't going to be more accepting if we attack each other, it'll just divide and make us weaker.

I really don't understand why people gatekeep things they don't know either, like keep an open mind. There's tons of shit that you probably don't know yet, but that doesn't mean it's dumb or isn't real.

[-] EmptySlime 8 points 4 days ago

As a nonbinary person myself I feel it's none of my business what configuration of self another individual needs to feel "right" inside. I can also understand the impulse even from other trans people to think that one might be being disingenuous. It wasn't that long ago that my identity was the one "making fun of trans people" for just wanting to exist in a way that makes me happy.

The problem is that even if the "most extreme" identities that bigots are using to justify their hate didn't exist it's not like the hate will actually stop. They'll just start lying about the next "most fringe" identity.

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

First, this is from a cis het person, so it's kinda iffy for me to respond.

That being said, I'm probably one of the few cishet people to have taken the idea seriously enough to look into and explore beyond the surface, so take all of the above into account before continuing.

So, dysphoria is a fairly specific term with a well defined parameter in terms of psychology. Since you're making a specific subdivision of that, species dysphoria, I have to make it clear up front that I'm discussing this only within that context, not as a comparison to gender dysphoria. I can make that comparison if anyone wants it, but that's not what OP asked, so I'm not going to otherwise.

Dysphoria as a word just means a sense of unease and dissonance or dissatisfaction. Adding species in front of it means that the feeling is related to that aspect of the person.

That's the basis I'm working on.

So, species dysphoria is a perfectly reasonable term for someone that has some kind of difficulty being human as a species. There are plenty of people that express that feeling, and that means it is definitely a "real" thing, it isn't a joke, it isn't something someone is doing for attention or to troll. Not that it can't be used for that, it could be. But it isn't inherent to the concept.

But what does that matter? What does it mean in terms of what's going on to cause that feeling?

That's where the problems on the subject start popping up. It becomes a question of how it should be addressed. Now, OP talked about being accused of making fun of trans people, but I'm assuming they're here in good faith, so I don't think it's useful to address it in those terms.

The first question that has to be answered when considering how to deal with people experiencing it is the big one: are they experiencing it because of some physical, concrete, and observable trait? Meaning, are they feeling it because there's something in their body that causes it?

So far, the answer is no. There is next to zero structured study of the matter, and even less that's been published (so little, in fact, that I couldn't find anything online, so I'm stuck working from memory). But, there have been people that have expressed some degree of difficulty being human, and having various degrees of "connection" to things that aren't human.

When dealing with such things, it has been a fairly common process to rule out physiological causes. So, there have been tests done on people seeking help for the dysphoria. MRI, CT, EEG, etc. So, there's a very solid case to be made that whatever the cause is, it isn't structural.

There's also been a lot of effort into mapping and understanding the human genome. While there are certain degrees of genes shared between pretty much all living things, there have been zero discoveries of anything that would indicate that humans are capable of expressing those genes in a way that would cause species dysphoria.

So, with those causes out of the running, there's a limited number of options.

First is the one that's most likely, that the feeling is one caused by the mind rather than the brain or body. Second is that despite the significant absence of evidence of anything physiological, that there's some kind of hidden action at play that manages to express itself in random and unpredictable ways. Third, is that it isn't anything science can address at all, that it's some kind of "spiritual" effect

If it's option 3, then there's nothing anyone can address because there's no way to measure it, no way to share observations of it, or any way to prove or disprove it. Which means it comes down to woowoo handwaving that's no more or less useful to discuss than astrology or palm reading. You either believe it or you don't, and there's no real way to bridge between the two.

If it's the second, then it might as well be the same as 3 until something is discovered because there's nothing to be done. Or, you can still handle it as the first option to help relieve the unpleasant symptoms associated with the feeling.

The first possibility, that's at least something that can be addressed. And it is most likely to be the cause of species dysphoria when it occurs. The problem is that in order to study the phenomenon, you would have to have sufferers be willing to have their information pooled and examined, to see if there's a common thread or not. Which hasn't happened as far as I've been able to dig.

Currently, it's being handled like most forms of dysmorphia, which is to treat it as something that someone can overcome, since it would in all probability be psychogenic in origin. It's being handled akin to anorexia, or body dysmorphic disorder (the famous example being people that feel a disconnection from a limb and seek amputation to relieve that feeling).

You asked what people feel about the subject, so I will say that I feel the first possibility is so probable as the underlying cause that treating it as psychogenic is the only useful course of action. This is not a value judgement, it's a judgement on how best to address the difficulties that such situations cause.

Now, I also want to make it clear that something being psychogenic doesn't invalidate it, or make the person "crazy". Crazy is kind of a useless term to begin with. It implies that the person is incapable of making their own decisions and choices. It implies that they're a danger to themselves and others. None of that has been shown to be consistently true of people dealing with the issue.

What it does mean is that, unless you choose to deal with it via spiritual/religious means, that it has to be addressed in terms of it being an artifact of the mind, not the body.

That's all that psychogenic means, that the issue at hand is being generated by the mind. It doesn't even mean that it's a bad thing, that it's unhealthy or in need of correction. It just means that trying to address it as something else would cause harm to the person experiencing it.

As an example, the mind can take something that is applying unbearable pressure to it, and cause physical symptoms. One example might be that someone experiences high stress, and their feet go numb. It's the mind taking control of the body in a way that the person now has to go slower and approach things in a lower stress way. If you try and treat those numb feet as though it's something like a multiple sclerosis flareup, the person would be harmed by the medications that would help someone with MS.

By handling someone experiencing species dysphoria as though the root cause is originating in the mind, you avoid causing harm that isn't at least tangentially useful.

The problem that a lot of people experiencing it run into is the assumption that because it's psychogenic it must also be "fixed", or cured. This does not seem to be the case. While the sensation of dysphoria as an aspect of dysmorhpia can be very overwhelming, all that's really necessary is to help the person find their balance with it. In other words, help them accept that there aren't any physical treatments that are viable, and find ways to cope with the distress.

It isn't like someone that's having a delusion of being chased by spiders. It isn't even a delusion at all. It doesn't have to be cured. It just needs to be managed.

Currently, the best way of managing the feeling of dysphoria is for the person to find as much balance in their social circles as possible, while being allowed to express their perceived self in private settings. To the best of what I've seen, the dysphoria and dysmorphia don't respond to the same kind of treatments other forms do. As an example, some anorexics respond to antidepressants or mood regulators. Those medications are, to the best of my knowledge, useless in reducing any form of species dysphoria (which, tbh, it really would be a dysmorphia, and the dysphoria would only come into play if the dysmorphia causes distress; if you're okay with the body not matching, then is isn't dysphoria from the medical side of things, but that's pedantic, not informative).

So, what the fuck does that wall of text mean? That anyone dismissing you as crazy is an asshole because even if you were "crazy", dismissing you isn't the acceptable reaction.

And, unless you are using it to fuck with trans people as an individual, then accusing you of that simply by virtue of a similar term being in play is also an asshole move. You shouldn't be dismissed on that as the sole standard.

You should, in an ideal setting, be given any help you need that's realistic to cope with your situation. The ideal part isn't possible because we can't even manage to treat anyone ideally as a global society. And, realistic as a criteria also has to acknowledge that some things are physically impossible, and others are so impractical as to be so.


I think it important to note that there is still a giant elephant sitting in the room, which is whether, or how, this issue is connected to, or should be connected to, trans issues. I'm aware that's a factor in the general subject, but I don't think it's for me to go into without it being asked for. I don't get to decide what is and isn't a trans issue, period. I have the freedom to decide how much I would invest into any given aspect, but I just don't have a say in that aspect of things.

I do have opinions. Plenty of them (though they might surprise folks if voiced). But they simply don't matter in that regard.

[-] 0x2640 7 points 4 days ago

it exists and anyone who says otherwise is silly (and not in a good way)

[-] BomberMan9865@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 days ago

Better way of saying it is that they are bigoted.

[-] gnomesaiyan@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Species dysphoria? You mean misanthropy? Sigh...

I identify as a transgender woman of elvish descent (aka elfkin); I am as much a man as I am a human. I like oneness and harmony with nature, being friendly and kind to others, and enjoy the company of other like-minded folk. I've never really seen myself as a human because I don't identify with a lot of the ideologies that humans represent, and especially the cultural norms they revolve around. A sparse few from what I've seen actually see past the subterfuge of humanity and have figured out their own existence.

To me, it seems that humans are very much out of touch with their environment, and the further they progress technologically, the further they become isolated from each other. The wanton desire for sex, money, power, these things do not concern me and lead to a path of self-destruction. The notion of religion and similar belief structures is also very damaging, because it sets a precedent that others must adhere to (power through control), which is not the same as moral obligation (though some of the hardcore seem to think so). I see the species as running down the clock to extinction, and I somehow feel I will witness the end of the Anthropocene in my lifetime, which summates my apprehension and misanthropy towards humans.

Ideally, I'd rather all humans left MY planet so I could live in harmony with it peacefully before they fully destroy it. Either that, or I found a portal back to my own dimension. Even an alien abduction could be very liberating, as I feel so alien already, it could be considered a rescue.

Basically, get your shit together and take it somewhere else. I'm having none of it.

this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2025
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