Yeah! It's best to use the national network, if it exists in your country. Also, daily reminder that the EU is working towards the digital Euro.
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters and the cashless payment fanatics.
I don't really get this tbh...
The digital euro looks so promising, even if it's a small thing. Ditching Visa and Mastercard would help reduce intermediates in the payment chain, even if the replacement is the bank itself.
I donโt really get this tbhโฆ
Plenty of threads on lemmy where people argue cryptos have no real use. Here's one: buying a product in europe without paying taxes to donald trump
Name one place I can spend crypto that isn't a dodgy online market
Or indeed a place to buy it for real money that doesn't involve a US payment processing company.
No point if you have to pay to get it in the first place.
Fair, I was thinking more brick & mortar and grocery shops but, fair.
There are also privacy-paranoid companies selling custom mobile phones without microphones for crypto currencies that you can then pick up in person.
But honestly, I wouldn't trust them. If your threat level is the government you should purchase a used phone from a random stranger and pay with cash.
newegg.com
Noted European retailer, newegg.
You just said "one place"
Proton or Mullvad if you prefer.
I concede that there are online services that aren't money laundering fronts or drug marketplaces that accept cryptocurrency as payment. OP also provided examples of online services accepting bitcoin.
I should have been more specific, my mistake. I was thinking more about every day purchases like groceries in a brick and mortar shop.
That is fair enough, I have just seen your other response mentioning brick and mortar stores now as well. I do realise we are in a buy European community but I thought you wanted just one example anywhere of somewhere that accepted crypto.
I have seen a couple of places IRL that accepted BTC but they were very small, independent stores that I'm guessing the owners were into crypto and just wanted to add the option as it was their interest. It certainly isn't something you can rely on to purchase your weekly shop or whatever which I guess is more what you were going for.
I do realise we are in a buy European community but I thought you wanted just one example anywhere of somewhere that accepted crypto
It's all good, my snarkiness tends to get me into more trouble than I intended. I appreciate you taking your time to respond and taking my request seriously.
It certainly isn't something you can rely on to purchase your weekly shop
Exactly, until my Grandmother can withdraw her monero from an ATM and pay for her tobacco with it I just don't see how crypto can ever replace FIAT.
mullvad
Oh thanks for clarifying... I don't really see those posts, to be honest.
I do hold some crypto myself (BTC). I think it's good to have some sort of currency outside of FIAT, just in case, but I don't foresee it ever becoming a thing in the EU.
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters
When crypto is backed by a regulatory body and isn't just speculative gambling, I might take it more seriously.
Corporations in America don't pay taxes. They kill us slowly and erode our democracy and sponsor facism but they don't pay taxes.
They don't pay income tax, but they do pay tax. They pay payroll taxes when paying employees, and those employees have to pay income taxes on those wages.
If you buy american, some of that money will go to the feds in taxes, and the US has a major corporate tax evasion problem. Both are true.
They're not the only options!
There's also..... American Express
How do we not have an international European card processor?
Because usa government and companies bought the current politicians
While it is partly true - look at how big lobbyorganisations of said companies are in Strasburg - I do not like how General this is. "All politicians are bought" is just straight up wrong.
Digital Euro when?
So is cash the only non-US option? Even my current account uses visa debit.
Visa at least probably doesn't collect a per transaction surcharge on these transactions right? I mean, they probably do get your data and probably ultimately still cost you money in a round about way.
I have no idea. I've wondered about buying those prepaid MasterCards for things where a card is needed. It's kind of like you need to think like someone doing fraud just to opt out of a financial norms that you don't agree with. People are already weirded out by someone paying cash here.
In Sweden we have Swish, which allows you to pay for stuff online without using any debit or credit card. I use it all the time, I cannot remember last time I paid online with card, unless it was from a foreign online shop/service.
However, it often isn't available in grocery and retail stores. But it is often available in rural areas or small shops who don't want to pay the fee for cards.
Also, Sweden is developing an e-krona, an electronic version of the Swedish currency. It should hopefully replace cards in all shops in the future.
Until then, using cash in grocery and retail stores is always possible. The problem is most swedes haven't seen physical money in so long I am not certain they still know how to use it... ๐ค
MobilePay in Finland and Denmark. I am not so sure the underlying payment infrastructure is US-free though.
This is a good point concerning Swish too, I have no idea.
You actually can pay in quite a few retail shops using swish nowadays.
Also loads of stores don't accept cash at all. Most big stores like grocery stores accept cash but not always all tills
Yeah, it is definitely getting more common. And cashless stores are also getting more common, which isn't necessarily a desirable development :/
For Willys or Hemkรถp you can download the app and scan. Scan directly in the Hemkรถp app. Use scan&go on the Willys app
And pay with swish? That's cool! Now that I think about it I think you can do that with COOP app too.
Wait, we're getting an e-krona?
Probably. Riksbanken is currently investing how it could be implemented: https://www.riksbank.se/sv/betalningar--kontanter/e-krona/
Huh, look at that
I'm all for it
Reminder: Arguing and discussion is okay, but keep it civil and do not attack the person you are arguing with.
There is already a solution inside the EU, the shops just have to support it now. "Over the course of 2025, banks will no longer be allowed to charge additional fees for instant transfers in euros. Banks in all 20 euro countries must also offer the real-time service as standard."
In (only) Italy you can use Bancomat
I often paid with my cards (or my watch), but switched to cash until there is a legit european alternative. Most cryptocurrencies are pump and dump schemes
Girokarte regelt
Hast du dir mal das Logo mit dem zwei Kreisen nรคher angeschaut?
Giro payment system lรคuft getrennt von Visa und Mastercard. Viele Girokarten sind aber eine Kombination aus Giro und Visa oder Masterkarte und da kommt manchmal das Logo her.
I think that's one of the part where there is no credible alternative, most of your credit/debit card will be either Visa or Mastercard, they're monoliths
every time you pay for something with your credit card you are most likely paying taxes to trump and his goons
Genuine question, how so?
The real problem here is that the "alternative" is a lot country specific alternatives that have no leverage to command worldwide adoption.
This could only be addressed ultimately by EU federalization. Let's see how much time until people and governments take to realize this.
The most probable solution is actually on the way (wero)
Will take a few more years to get all the features and require some incentives for people to switch from PayPal though. We'll see.
Any time you use a card at a PoS terminal in the US, one of those two are likely the payment processor as well.
Same with American Express and Discover.
The alternatives I know of are JCB, UnionPay, Interac and RuPay
In France there is the CB network.
A lot of cards are dual network CB/Visa or CB/MasterCard and the fees are much lower in the CB network so most POS are using it as well.
Does the same go for debit cards?
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