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submitted 5 months ago by Arghblarg@lemmy.ca to c/politics@lemmy.world

In response to suggestions by a lunatic in the US Oval Office, Green Party Canada's leader Elizabeth May suggested Canada should invite western states Washington, Oregon and California join B.C and split from Canada to form the 'Cascadia' eco-state.

(Note this article is from Jan 8, 2025 and Elizabeth May has since become co-leader of the party alongside Jonathan Pedneault).

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[-] SnotFlickerman 85 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Yes, fucking, PLEASE.

Sick of our tax dollars supporting these fucking deadbeat ass states like Arkansas,Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi.

Also Louisiana, Arkansas, and Mississippi all smell like a fucking asshole because of all the paper mills.

[-] Star 30 points 5 months ago

As a Washingtonian, I would unironically support this. I'm sick of being forced to fund a fucking genocide.

[-] Claymore@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago

As a resident of British Columbia, I would support this with the sole condition that we all use only the metric system.

[-] GeeDubHayduke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 months ago

But, how will i know how big something is if we stop comparing things to horses and refrigerators?

[-] flames5123@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Yep. There’s a reason me and my wife left Mississippi a few years ago for Washington.

[-] just_another_person@lemmy.world 81 points 5 months ago

That would immediately launch it into the #2 spot of countries by GDP. I'm down for that 🤣

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

No, it woukdn't. A ton of California's money comes from being part of the US economy. Redirecting all the money the state gets from being oart of the USA away from those states will change theor GDP considerably.

Every single tech firm that wants DOD money will have to leave those states. That will gut any potential gain you could expect.

[-] guaraguaito 68 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Just FYI Canadians, don’t get fooled when people say California is “leftist”. Check out recent referendum results, they voted against abolishing slavery (for prisoners) and in favour of the death penalty for example. They are only “leftist” in relation to the neofacist US’s overton window.

[-] zaphodb2002@sh.itjust.works 25 points 5 months ago

Yes, as a Californian leftist, our government has always been more interested in money than people, and it will continue to be a problem. NIMBYs will be the death of us.

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 8 points 5 months ago

California has a rural state within it that's called The State Of Jefferson and it's very rural and conservative. You can just cut that part out of Cascadia

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[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 49 points 5 months ago

I personally support all of Canada amd the US breaking into smaller countries but with an EU style freedom of movement and trade deal.

[-] Presently42@lemmy.ca 8 points 5 months ago

Just say no to balkanisation

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[-] hansolo@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago

So, this was pushed for a while and was later discovered to be Chinese propaganda. But it holds water is the thing.

Breaking into smaller counties isn't the solution because you lose economies of scale and inefficient trade. Which was why China pushed it, to leave themselves and the EU as the largest single economies in the world.

The real solution is to regionalize block of states and instead of having one head of state as President, a council of state like Switzerland with a rotating chair that functions as the ceremonial head of state.

But that would take a new constitution...

[-] MrNobody@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 5 months ago

But that would take a new constitution… Yeah, its a good that the thing that is only a couple centries old has been updated to match modern times and all.

Ironic when you consider that the people who would cry foul and act all offended the most if you ever were to suggest thinking about changing the entire constitution, have no issue with blatantly ignoring it entirely when it suits them.

Almost like the people who follow and believe in it the most are the only ones about to get mega dicked.

[-] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 months ago

I like this because it’s closer to “articles of confederation” version of the proto United States which imo is closer to anarchism although still far from it.

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[-] aceshigh@lemmy.world 26 points 5 months ago

Why does the east coast always get left out?

[-] WhatYouNeed@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Because the east coast will form Mega-City One.

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[-] hedge_lord@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago
[-] fishos@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

Ok, but we made a promise in the past to take Alaska and Hawaii with us too.

[-] ZeffSyde@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

It's super convenient because Hawaii and Alaska are in boxes just off the west coast on maps.

[-] tiefling 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Can you please bring the Northeast in as well? NY and Toronto are already buds, and Niagara Falls has one foot in each

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Cleveland and buffallo are oddly tied at the hip when you think about it.

And by that, I mean I'm tying Cleveland to this deal by teaming up with Buffalo to get in on this. C'mon. We got beer and chocolate and a pretty strong polish population. Which are great people to be friends with. C'mon Canada! You know you like chocolate, and beer, and perogis! Slso buffalo has buffalo wings.....I mean I assume. Why else would you name a whole place after a food if that place doesn't have that food???

eats french fries

Ah the french. Known for their CHAMPAIGNEXCELLENCE!!!!!*

long awkward silence.....like, really long......like you're wondering how the other guy isn't breaking character AT ALL. He's too scared to disrespect Orson Wells

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[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

Never going to happen. The USA will not let CA leave.

[-] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 5 months ago
[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

True but few are as important as CA.

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago

So, I think this could happen. Trump and Musk are just trying to speedrun smashing the administrative state; it's difficult to overstate the enormity of the damage they're going to do to the federal government's ability to govern over the next two months. Laying off all these administrators and closing their offices is going to create a glut of administrators at the same time as it creates a demand for administrative capacity to make up for what the feds dropped. Plus, they're going to want to stop California, but how will they when they've gone and replaced every competent person in the DOJ/DOD/FBI/CIA with incompetent stooges?

California has an advanced enough administrative state to handle breaking off, jokes aside. California also has the economy. Here's the kicker: California has the geography. California would be a complete bitch to invade; for most of the coastline, the mountains (hills, as the locals call them, but they ARE mountains) just run right into the ocean, and the ocean is notoriously a bastard for much of that coastline; as for an overland route, there's basically, like, three big highways that cross the Sierra Nevadas to inland Cali. A couple of big bombs or cal fire bulldozers would make short work of them. Plus, California has a LOT of agriculture to support itself with. Basically, the one weak spot is water supply, and we could be doing a lot better than we are if we just tightened up on our industrial, livestock, and rich dumbass consumption.

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

California's economy is extremely dependent on being part of the USA. They barely cover the hap between money taken from the government and what they contribute and it is fairly easy to make the case they take more.

The government would not need to invade. The moment they make clear that CA farmers cannot access the Colorado river waters like they used to and that any foreign tech company is no longer able to access US DOD money you will see tech be willing to move and agriculture collapse in CA. After gutting any aide and scholarships for students attending CA schools and the USA will have crippled the top 3 industries in CA without firing a shot.

CA wouldn't be akin to France ir Italy if it left the USA it would be more like Mexico economically.

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago

Bro, Mexico isn't really that badly off. They've got their problems, for sure, but who doesn't?

Second, California is sure to have its own defense industry, and I don't know if you'd see tech abandon their silicon valley HQs. It's going to be hard to walk away from that pool of skilled labor they've concentrated in that area.

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[-] Arghblarg@lemmy.ca 13 points 5 months ago

The National Post seems to have taken down the article so linking to archive.is

[-] SilentStorms@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 5 months ago

Elizabeth May says a lot of things I like, but also comes out with bizarro-world shit like this

[-] Arghblarg@lemmy.ca 18 points 5 months ago

It was mostly a joke I'm sure, but a good retort :)

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 months ago

So, instead of Canada becoming the 51st state, the suggestion is that Canada just loses BC? How about we dismiss all the options where Canada loses territory?

Also, if BC seceded, it would only be a matter of time before Quebec did too.

I'm not fundamentally against the idea of states splitting off or joining up. There's no reason that the configuration of countries should always stay as they are in 2025. But, the reasons should be good. If there truly is a "Cascadian" culture, then yeah, maybe a nice separation agreement could be negotiated that's fair to everyone. But, having spent time in Vancouver, Seattle, San Fransisco and LA, I sure don't see it. The cultural difference even between SF and LA is pretty huge. And, I can't imagine that most people in BC would be keen to accept the guns of America, and the lack of free health care. Or, going the other way, would Americans be willing to give up their guns to join Cascadia?

It just seems to me that every time the world adds borders or moves borders, the result is conflict. I hope that over time there are fewer borders, and that the borders matter less. But, the only way to do it while avoiding war is really to do it slowly.

[-] Arghblarg@lemmy.ca 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The "Cascadia" idea wouldn't be viable IMO. It would be better for all to just add the newcomers to an enlarged Canada. (I 100% wouldn't want B.C. to leave Canada, just to be clear, nor any Canadian territories to be 'exchanged' or lost).

I'd be against any absorption that brought US gun ideology to Canada... if they're splitting from the US, they'd better be doing so for the goals of taking on the more pacifist and commensalist Canadian values.

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[-] htrayl@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

News flash:

Political party leaders who suggest succession and independence are almost always pushing Russian propaganda.

Breaking apart the US is the greatest victory that Russia (and other nations hostile to the states) they could hope to accomplish.

[-] Arghblarg@lemmy.ca 13 points 5 months ago

May's definitely not a Russian asset. She just has a good sense of humour.

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[-] meowmeowbeanz@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 months ago

Cascadia. Sounds like a rejected Hunger Games spinoff. Let’s carve up nations like a rotisserie chicken because the Overton window’s been replaced by a funhouse mirror. California can’t even fix a pothole without 17 ballot initiatives, but sure, let’s rewrite sovereignty. BC would sooner adopt Texas’s gun laws than tolerate Sacramento’s NIMBY circus.

This isn’t secession—it’s geopolitical fanfiction. Canada’s already two polite arguments away from Quebec storming out. Cascadia would collapse faster than a Jenga tower in a MAGA rally. Balkanization’s a cute fantasy until Alabama starts eyeing your water rights. Keep your “eco-state.” I’ll stick to my prepper bunker—at least it’s got a shot at surviving the next zoning meeting.

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[-] Snapz@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

The REMNANTS of the US would be fucked without the regular contributions of CA and tech folks based in WA. Most (or is it all?) red states are net takers (pull more from government than they contribute back) while publicly whining about welfare. Fuck around and find out....

[-] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

As a Californian I'll say that if they want to take our rights and go home, we'll take our money and go home.

[-] pixxelkick@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Terrible idea, that new country would instantly realize how awful it is needing to negotiate for oil when you have zero local sources of it.

The US has Texas, and Canada has Alberta.

You do not wanna form any kind of new pseudo country that doesn't have oil in 2025, you will have some serious issues within a couple years.

The only people that talk about any states or provinces separating are the people too ignorant of just how deeply they are dependent on all the rest of their country's exports, imports, and production.

Yes, even backwater places have an absolute fuck tonne of stuff they produce that you depend on every Just because you might think mineral mines, farms, oil, steel factories, forestry, etc etc isnt of major value, it is and you literally depend on it daily

You cant break out from that, but too many people have become too deeply dumb to grok how fucked their life would become if their specific state/province seperated.

You're cost of living would fucking skyrocket to levels you cant even imagine. So much random shit you currently take for granted still being affordable would vaporize as you suddenly realize "Oh yeah I guess we dont make that here locally do we, where does that come from? Shit it comes from there? I never knew they made this stuff, I use it every day! Now I cant have it at all? I can still, it just costs a lot more and is imported? Well how much does it cost? (spit take) IT COSTS HOW MUCH NOW?!?!"

[-] astrsk@fedia.io 9 points 5 months ago

The pure dollar loss for the US in tax money from California alone, combined with Seattle’s import hubs, not to mention all the west coast tech sector would likely end with several remaining US state collapses in sheer funding weight alone. Several southern states only survive because of the critical mass of tax money from west cost cities.

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[-] sfbing@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

I'll guess that you have never been to California. There was pumpjack one block away from my house when I was growing up.

But in fact, the biggest thing keeping us from moving away from fossil fuels is the political pressure from people who make money from it. And if California went into Canada or Cascadia, those people would come with it, kicking and screaming all the way.

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this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2025
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