Who the fuck said we had to choose either? We can live in a world with neither, and that world requires women's rights, including the right to abortion.
Who the fuck said we had to choose either?
They did, and pointing that out will (I'm guessing) be met with some form of covering their ears and saying "nah nah nah I can't hear you."
I've seen the sort. When confronted with the real-world results of their moralizing, they retreat to quoting cherry-picked Bible verses and posting pictures of fetuses ("look how human she looks!").
The real kicker is: no amount of 10yo parents is going to prevent abortions. We've been through this whole song and dance before. The abortions didn't stop, just a lot more women died.
They want to go back to women dying from abortions, because they think women who get abortions are murderers who deserve to die. Until it’s someone they know and suddenly the reasons for the abortion matter and they’re the special exception.
They're saying that an incestuous rape baby being born every year is a lesser evil than abortions being legal. They're wrong, but insofar as they believe that, they're not going to support a woman's right to choose.
Here's a fucked up article about study done in states with abortion restrictions. Around 64,000 babies born from SA in states with abortion restrictions. And somehow we're the extremists for not wanting that, for wanting all women to have a choice.
Stop self-censorship. You can and should write what these fucks want to hide. Do not help them disguise these facts
It doesn't even stop any other abortions though. It actually increases the number of abortions.
I can only guess what the context here is but to imply that "they're fine with kids getting raped" is almost definitely an extremely dishonest strawman of what they're actually trying to say. This type of bad-faith dunking on people you disagree with only makes them dig down their heels even deeper and, I'd argue, is only making things worse.
If I had to steelman their position without knowing full context, I'm assuming that what they're trying to say is that abortion shouldn't be legal just because of the comparatively small number of cases where it perhaps would be justified (incest/rape) because it opens the door to a huge number of what they see as unecessary abortions.
If one truly cares about changing minds rather than scoring worthless internet points then you need to take down the foundations - not break the windows. Breaking windows is fun and easy but it doesn't achieve anything. Listen to what people are saying and challenge their core beliefs.
If I had to steelman their argument I'd wonder if they are properly informed about the very real, well documented physical risks to children from getting pregnant and carrying to term. Death is one option, but long term physical disability due to spinal and hip fractures aren't unheard of. As well as a long list of other physical and psychological effects I'm not gonna put here.
So what I'm gathering is that this person is either very, VERY uneducated about the physical consequences of childbirth, both for adults and children, and just how frequently children are sexually assaulted.
Either they're very ignorant, possibly willfully, or they are straight up a troll. Poe's law makes it increasingly difficult to tell these days. Ignorance can be a temporary state of being, but would they care about medical data? Who knows.
But even when steelmaning the argument, they deserve to be called out on not even considering a middle ground where 10 year old rape victims are not allowed an abortion. Because “opening up doors” is a too big a cost for them.
I agree to a certain degree, that twisting someone’s pretty shitty argument isn’t helping the discourse. So my response isn’t really directed at you.
Steelmanning an argument doesn't make it immune to refutation. It just means you're refuting the strongest possible version. In this case, the argument is so inherently fucked up that even the steelman version is still a "what the fuck?"
There have been 0 unnecessary abortions performed on earth. There have been billions of unnecessary rapes. The world would be a better place if we had had more abortions and less rapes.
I think the point of their argument, not that I agree with them, is that they see any abortion as straight up murder, so in their mind child rape is an acceptable consequence because the alternative is child murder.
That's why this argument is so pervasive in keeping the masses separated, it's a choice between the left's bodily autonomy and the religious right's believing life starts at conception. Neither side is willing to concede an inch to the other because it's not an argument where you can compromise.
I hate to say this but babies being found in garbage bins is about to be a fairly regular occurrence.
In the age of DNA, it's going to be dangerous to do that. We need more of the safe boxes at fire stations. Of course, we also need rights, abortions, contraception, and family planning to be widely available, too.
a person who throws a baby in the trash isn't one who's thinking clearly. it's fear, panic and desperation. deterrents are not going to be a factor.
If you don't find the baby, no DNA. So much MUCH darker prospects..
A major problem with abortion on condition of rape is that it motivates false accusations.
It is an evil law supported by people who don't care about male victims.
What percentage of cases would this even apply to?
Weird and fucking disturbing that you manage to make men out to be the victims here.
The vast majority of rape accusations are, in fact truthful. Like, fucking overwhelmingly so. But, who cares about the 'females' right?
Honestly, this is the kinda statement I'd expect from a rapist, simply due to the utterly vile lack of empathy for women.
And besides, who is gonna try make an accusation of rape, even when that is literally what happened, when there is no damn chance of a conviction in time to get the abortion.
You're fucking weird
Edit: I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: I don't believe this has ever, or will ever happen. Absolutely no man is getting accused of rape just so the women can get an abortion. Fucking zero. None.
And just how many abortions have been approved so far due to rape? I bet that's also zero.
Disgusting. Just fucking completely disgusting. There's are NO MALE VICTIMS TO ANTI ABORTION LAWS. Yeesh
Keep your incel shit to yourself. Fuck
Their point was that incentivising rape allegations as a means to permit an abortion will lead to a non-zero number of instances where false allegations will occur. This is correct. Men weren't being victimized, and comparing this guy with a rapist is immature and downright disrespectful to victims of rape.
If you are ok with a few more instances of men being falsely accused of rape for the greater good of women, then your thinking is analogous to the person in the original post who was ok with 1 person being raped to stop the killing of thousands of unborn babies.
Do you have any evidence for that claim?
Fear of reprisal, not wanting to get the offender in trouble or a belief that law enforcement would not help matters prevented most victims of rape from reporting what happened to them, the federal report said.
What’s happening is that people who are experiencing rape are not being allowed to choose abortion,”
“Highly stigmatized life events are hard to measure. And many survivors of sexual violence do not want to disclose that they went through this incredibly stigmatizing traumatic life event,”
Even in states with exceptions for rape, very few people got an abortion—likely because of fear and intimidation, Dickman speculates.
Yeah, it seems to be quite the opposite if I'm reading this correctly. The only ones hurt by the exceptions are the victims themselves, as always.
Dickman speculates.
I would use a penname if it were my job to write about that kind of stuff...
I want to see this guy explain that to the 10 year old.
There are people out there that would be ok with doing this. I’ve met them and I never want to see them again.
I mean the concept is not difficult to grasp. They are comparing one horrific thing to a group of thirty thousand horrific things and choosing the lesser evil. They are not "okay" with ten-year olds being raped... Claiming so is a reading comprehension error.
The issue here is that we don't agree with them that those 30k other "horrific" events are all that horrific.
This is very well said. So many people make this out to be a men vs. women power struggle when it is really focused on whether a fetus is human or not. That's why well-informed women can be pro-life, and well-informed men can be pro-choice.
It isn't about whether or not a fetus is human. It's about bodily autonomy. Making it a question about a fetus's humanity misses the point. It's a question about whether or not a person has control over their own body.
Why do I suspect that they would be okay with 30,000 10 year olds being forced to give birth to their fathers child to prevent 1 abortion?
This is one of those topics that people like to force their views on others and not care about the consequences. Another good example is porn. "I don't think people should watch porn" is something people actually vote for. Yet all the studies performed show sexual assaults and rapes increase everywhere you ban porn. So forcing their views on people has real consequences and they just don't want to acknowledge them.
A vote to ban porn is a vote to increase rapes and sexual assaults. Yes that includes more children being raped as well.
A vote to ban abortions doesn't stop abortions, all it does is increase the number of mother's and babies dying from unsterilized attempts at aborting, children being thrown in dumpsters, buried alive, left outside, dropped at fire departments, put into underfunded orphan systems that have more kids than they can get adopted BEFORE you took away their safer way of not abusing a child.
The only thing these votes do is take away people's choice, and hurt people.
A vote to ban abortion or porn is a vote to hurt people.
Okay, what the fuck is up with the rape apologetics and anti-bodily autonomy chubs in these comments?
Likely trolls or sock puppets meant to try and legitimize their pro-rape position. Spoiler, it doesn't work NEARLY as well as they think it does.
And yet, the ghouls won the election.
Maybe it works better than we give it credit for.
It's funny that one instance of child rape apologia creates so much more in these comments. There are some real debate lords(/trolls) out here making arguments that would be immediately tossed if faced with a child victim in real life.
sfgsdgdsgdsgdsgdfs
There is no rape too vile that I will not accept it as the price of killing people by taking away their healthcare.
Maybe I should put quotes around that. Eh, I bet it won't misused against me.
Also those numbers are going to be way off unless you're counting things like ectopic pregnancies.
Epstein didn't kill himself, as evidenced by this mf
The average c/WTF enjoyer
