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[-] Smoogs@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago

A lot of conservatives want to simplify life because they have a simple mind.

[-] inv3r510n@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago

Because queerness (trans, gender non conforming, gender fluid, agender, bigender and related) threatens hierarchy.

In western society regardless of how ‘progressive’ some parts of it have gotten, for the majority there’s still a strict hierarchy. Man most important, then woman, then children first boys then girls. Trans people completely disrupt this hierarchy by being able to change what they are and those who cling to hierarchy freak the fuck out over it.

Then there’s the sexual panic, a straight man who’s insecure is gonna freak out if the woman they think is cute actually has a penis.

[-] GiveOver@feddit.uk 8 points 1 day ago

If that were true, then it would be trans men getting the most attention because they're the ones cheating their way up this hierarchy. In my experience, 99% of the hate is directed at trans women.

[-] inv3r510n@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If the transphobes thought trans men were men then your comment would be accurate. But they just see them as confused women and easy to just ignore them like they ignore cis women.

(You are right about trans women bearing the brunt of the hate, and I think so much of that is sexual panic from cishet men about finding a penis owner attractive)

[-] graphene@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

Yes! Screw the patriarchy

[-] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Meh, I don't know if it's strictly a hierarchy thing. I think it's probably more "just" a heteronormative thing. Closed-minded people who don't like things or people that are different. Fear of difference. I'm just speculating, here.

I can also see the sexual panic aspect.

[-] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

That's cuz it isn't hierarchy, it's tradition. People have a hard time warming up to things that are very different from the norm.

[-] OwenEverbinde@lemmy.myserv.one 53 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Materialist answer (inspired by a video called Why The Political Compass is Wrong: Establishing An Accurate Model of Political Ideology, by breadtuber Halim Alrah... and also Jane Elliott's famous experiment)

Business owner makes money by paying workers to produce widgets at $6 / unit. Owner sells these widgets at $10 / unit, making a $4 profit each sale.

Before long, the workers catch on to the reality of the situation: the owner could be making a lot less and still be able to provide "leadership" (or whatever it is he provides). They decide not to work for less than... $8 per unit. With this price, the owner will still be wealthy (the business makes hundreds of widgets, after all). But now, so will the workers.

So the workers save up money and use it to go on strike.

However: business owner comes up with a better solution to the problem: he divides the workers into brown-eyed workers and blue-eyed workers. He then uses his money to discriminate against the brown-eyed workers. His cronies in government make it legal to deny brown-eyed workers jobs and housing. His cronies in the media write hysterical anecdotal stories about various brown-eyed rapists, thieves, and murderers.

Terrified mobs -- stoked into a frenzy by the business owner's well-funded propaganda -- tear down brown-eyed people's homes and food supplies, leaving them destitute before the strike is done.

The brown-eyed workers now must choose between returning to work for the business owner at $5 / unit... or starving to death.

The blue-eyed workers, meanwhile, have just been tricked into betraying their own team. Some were not tricked, but simply unprepared. These unprepared workers stood by in either shock, uncertainty, or laziness, unable to comprehend how their fellow blue-eyed workers could have become so foolishly self-defeating and cruel.

But now the business owner can put up the illusion of no longer needing the blue-eyed workers. He can run his factory on a skeleton crew of desperate, brown-eyed workers, and say to the blue, "uh oh! Looks like the brown-eyed workers just stole your jobs!"

Much like the brown-eyed workers, the blue-eyed workers have a restricted set of choices: A) admit they were suckers --fooled into attacking their own team -- and try to apologize and rebuild their union, B) double down and blame brown-eyed people for undercutting them... but reluctantly return to work, because the strike is broken, or C) just like the brown-eyed workers, they can choose to starve to death.

(A) will be the most difficult. As Mark Twain said: "it's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled."

The business owner wins, and now society has an eye-color-discrimination problem. Eye color was an arbitrary characteristic. Yet now it decides where someone lives, who they spend time with, and what kinds of opportunities they have access to.

The business owner can rinse and repeat for: skin tone, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. As the saying goes,

"Divide and conquer."

You asked why trans people are currently the subject of fear and hysteria? No reason. Not any new reason at least. Trans people are different. Any and every difference between workers is an opportunity for those fatcats rich enough to own "The Daily Mail" and the "The New York Post" to separate us into camps and drain us dry, one camp at a time.

[-] elucubra@sopuli.xyz 10 points 1 day ago

I find this disingenuous, infantilizing. Racial discrimination and warring has been happening since the beginning of (recorded) time. It stems, among many, many other things (this thing is incredibly complex), from the fear of the other's "unknowns", a somewhat justified fear of others, given humanity's penchant for conquering the neighbors. Another factor is the use of each own's feeling of superiority over the other's, to cover for one's underlying fear of inferiority in some way. Take the example (one of many, not singling out here) of the Jews assertion that they are god's chosen people, thus everyone else being inferior.

While divide and conquer has been used since the dawn of time, and adapted by the capitalists, the sad and simple fact is that people fear that which doesn't conform to their comfortable life scheme, that people want certainty, and having a "different" is unsettling for many, and demonization is an easy way to prop one's belief structure. People who exchange critical thinking for a "safe" belief structure, find it threatening to have others challenge that, so they fight back, to try to have that attack defeated. This can be exploited by others, to rally against that perceived common enemy. Wave a flag, and all who have a common belief of that flag representing their values will rally.

People don't want to think, and/or challenge their beliefs. It's a comfort thing.

[-] Bacano@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

I like your answer too. While I strongly believe the trans talking point is being amplified almost exclusively to fuel culture wars between the working class, your point on out-group mentality is a DNA encoded reality, from what I remember reading.

I think the two compromise the bulk of the answer along with the culture war fuel dumped by foreign entities interested in destabilizing the US.

The only remedy is education. Something that is sadly on the decline.

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[-] josefo@leminal.space 3 points 1 day ago

Conservatives are afraid of change, because they control current status quo. They can't let people escape from that control, so every nail that is a little outside it's hole gets hammered.

In short, they rather prefer trans (and broadly queers) to hide or die, unless they can control them. Everyone different from what they can control is a big danger. Imagine if everyone could be like they feel like? Conservatives see this as chaos, they are the guardians of peace and good values, so anything not already controlled by them is the opposite, chaos, destruction, fire.

That's why they rarely present anything new, their policies and general opinion tend to fight the natural evolution of civilization. USA, as obviously all of the American Continent, was built by immigrants (and slaves). Now they fight immigrants, undocumented ones mostly, because they can't control them. And we know what happened when 'the libs' back then tried to end slavery, you know, other people that they CONTROLLED.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Because conservatives are mostly dumb, and dumb people don't understand things and won't make an effort to understand things, and people fear what they don't understand. Very simple A-to-C.

[-] auzy@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago

We have a lot of LGBTI people in our climbing group

I have never had an issue with any of them

But the people trying to be hyper masculine? Yep..

I feel like it's because they never left high school. A lot of them are simply trying the same thing that worked when they are a kid. Everyone else grows up

[-] PagingDoctorLove@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago

Their systems of power rely on having an "in" group and an "out" group. Overt racism is less acceptable these days because now there are brown Republicans, but transphobia? Very in.

They're just choosing a new group to "other" so that we don't realize they're coming for everyone who doesn't fit into their narrow worldview.

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[-] klemptor@startrek.website 89 points 2 days ago

For a simple example: my mother is Catholic and until Trump came along, a lifelong single-issue Republican voter who always said she would be a Democrat if it weren't for abortion. She attends church in an extremely progressive, famously LGBTQ-friendly town.

There's a transwoman who attends her church (let's call her Rita). This lady is probably in her mid-50s to mid-60s and has been a fixture at the church for at least 5 years. My mom has been in choir and bible study groups with her for years now. She still just can't see Rita as a woman. Treats her politely but behind her back refuses to call her "she" and says she's a "man in a dress".

She's really offended that Rita uses the ladies' room. I've asked her why and she can't articulate it, she just feels like it's an invasion of her privacy, because men don't belong in the ladies' room. And when I point out that Rita isn't a man, she just rolls her eyes. I've asked her if she's worried that Rita is in there for predatory purposes and she admits that she doesn't think Rita intends any harm. I've asked her how she'd feel if she were forced to use the men's room and she says "but that's different!"

My mom prides herself in being a moral person, and still can't manage to get past her bigotry to see Rita as a woman. There are just too many mental blockades against it. But since she thinks she's so highly moral, she thinks she must be correct in this situation. It excuses her from finding empathy and bettering her attitude toward trans folks.

My longwinded point is that when people who consider themselves highly moral are bigoted, there's almost zero chance of getting through to them. And I think a lot of the people who are bigoted against trans folks feel that morality is on their side and being trans is morally deviant, so they think they're justified in their prejudice.

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[-] Kalysta@lemm.ee 37 points 2 days ago

Conservatives come in two types. The rich ones who want more and more money. And the poor ones who also want more money but are unable to obtain it because the rich hoard money.

The rich conservatives need to stop the poor conservatives from realizing the rich are why the poor can’t get money. So they make up vulnerable groups to blame for the poor’s problem, and the poor are generally too poorly educated to catch on to this game.

Different groups have been the scapegoat. Women, blacks, the italians, the irish, asians, gays, and now it’s transgender people.

The good news is transgender people WILL get full rights in about 20-30 years if you look at historical cycles. The bad news is it will be a fight and many will die before they get treated as human beings by these asshole conservatives.

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[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago
  1. People fear new unknown things (as perceived by the individual), especially when it comes to bodies and human form, instinctively.

  2. It doesn't conform to their strict societal standards as crafted by thousands of years of culture and history. The authorities have always persecuted and cracked down on anything that threatens the patriarchal standard.

  3. Minorities make the easiest targets. Trans people are an extreme minority.

  4. Some people think it has more to do with sexuality and sexual urges, so their perception is that it is perversion.

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[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

I don't encounter a lot of ads but I was just listening to the Economist talk about this one which the trump campaign played over and over again and it struck me as a small window of an answer to your question.

The ad strikes me as cruel but the thrust (and I imagine there's a blend of fact and fiction) is that Harris used tax money to pay for a woman's sex change after being convicted of first degree murder and serving life in prison. They also have Harris saying she was using her power to "push forward the movement and the agenda."

Even for supporters of trans rights, I imagine not everyone loves having to defend using tax money to pay for expensive gender surgery, especially on criminals.

So I could see people, who might otherwise be supportive of trans folks in their own lives, being "against trans people" on an issue framed like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3BXYjoAzq0&ab_channel=TheJimHeathChannel

[-] RBWells@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago

They are just propagandized. In general, it's so much like racists - they may know trans people and just think they are the exceptions, like them as individuals and still think they hate them as a group. They are intentionally riled up by being forced fed edge cases and disinformation.

Trans people are just people. They aren't angels who are never criminals and they aren't degenerates who are always criminal, they are a diverse group like all of us are. But you can bet your ass that whenever a trans person does something criminal it will be blown up so big in conservative media and used to paint them all as criminals. It's just the right wing media machine.

[-] Snapz@lemmy.world 32 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

How to say it delicately.. Many conservative/religious men really, truly want to just impale their throats on lady dick, but they are indoctrinated from birth to believe that a zombie from space (who they agree watches them shower and have sex) will be mad at them if they do what makes them happy. So to distract themselves from that always burning urge to ravenously aspirate dong nog, they performatively hate things as a hobby to pass the time until they die - profoundly alone and completely unhappy (see Lindsey Graham)

And then the conservative women are taught that they are stupid, useless furniture pieces there to look pretty and parrot - not capable of an opinion outside of the one provided by their husband or father.

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[-] slumlordthanatos@lemmy.world 120 points 3 days ago

As someone who grew up in a conservative household in a deep red state, I think that part of it is that a lot of people are letting Lizard Brain dictate their response to transgender people.

Let me give you a personal example. A while back, I went to a social dance, and there was a trans woman there. Before the dance starts proper, the couple that runs it will teach a dance lesson, and we rotate partners while that's going on. Eventually, I was rotated into being her partner. For some background, she was obviously early on in her transition; she still looked like a dude in a dress, she didn't quite have the appearance down yet. But she gets huge props for not only having the bravery to go out as herself, but doing it in fucking Arkansas.

So I rotate over to her, and it dawns on me that she's trans. In my head, Lizard Brain immediately starts screaming. "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?! THIS PERSON IS OBVIOUSLY A DUDE IN A DRESS, HE MUST BE UP TO SOMETHING IF HE'S DRESSING AS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HE IS! RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE"

Keep in mind, where I grew up, you just didn't see trans people, and even now, it still tickles that primal part of my brain that was trained to be uncomfortable around people who aren't white and straight.

The difference between me and many of the people I grew up around is that I recognize that it's happening and try to tone Lizard Brain out when it starts screaming. A lot of other people listen to it and don't care that the person that it's screaming about is exactly that: a person.

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[-] ada 274 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Because stirring up hate against vulnerable minorities, by positioning them as a threat is a well tested and effective technique for the power hungry to gain and retain power. And it's effective, because it works by pulling people in and making all of the conversation about whether or not it's right to hate on the group they're targeting.

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[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 2 days ago

Fascists are cowards who attack the most vulnerable people as a standard tactic.

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[-] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 37 points 2 days ago

You all are overthinking it way too much.

Most people hate anything that's different or uncommon to themselves and their "world".

Simple as that.

It's heterophobia in the semantic sense of the word "fear of anything that's different".

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[-] goldenlocks@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I support trans people to do whatever they want to themselves but unfortunately one did shoot up a school https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Nashville_school_shooting

[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 day ago

With trans people making up 0.5-1.6% of the US population, wouldn't it be strange if not a single school shooter was trans?

That question lead me down a rabbit hole: There have been 417 school shootings since Columbine in 1999 https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/

I don't have statistics on the number of school shootings perpetrated by multiple people. But I suspect that it's a miniscule number. So I'm going to go with 417 individuals carrying out acts counted as school shootings. And not to try to be John Oliver or something, but what counts as a school shooting may be as little as this numbnuts who shot them self in the leg in a high school parking lot https://www.wptv.com/news/region-the-glades/belle-glade/lockdown-lifted-at-glades-central-high-school-following-shooting.

0.5% of 417 is 2.1 and 1.6% is 6.7.

Meaning that somewhere between 2 and 7 trans school shooters would indicate that trans people are just as likely as cis people to carry out school shootings. That only a single shooter has been trans, may not be statistically significant, as we're dealing with integers and it's pretty darn close.

So I'm left to conclude that being trans isn't significant in being a school shooter. Trans people may just be as fucked up as the rest of us.

What I'm more interested in is how the trans man in Nashville in 2023 would have counted, if this statistic didn't only cover until 2022 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1463155/active-shooters-us-schools-by-gender/

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[-] infinite_ass@leminal.space 3 points 1 day ago

Rural IL here. Full of conservatives.

Nobody here cares if you are trans. Couldn't care less.

Never met a school church shooter either.

[-] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 34 points 2 days ago

Far simpler than whateveryone else is saying. The best way to rally humans to your side is to give them a common enemy. So conservative politicians picked enemies that are small in number and told everyone how they are to blame for all that is wrong in the world.

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[-] shasta@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

Most conservatives I know think it's dangerous to entertain trans ideas in children. They say kids don't know what gender really means because they haven't experienced puberty yet but the most effective time to use hormone blockers is before puberty. So they feel like it's the parents who are encouraging use of hormone therapy for their kids because the parents are brainwashed by left media, and essentially committing child abuse.

[-] VerticaGG 4 points 1 day ago

To them I say:

  • If I'm old enough to be disfigured by puberty, I'm old enough for HRT.
  • A trans child is a blessing, deserving of the choice to avoid a puberty they are telling you they do not want.
[-] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Except for the fact that puberty is an actual thing that occurs without outside influence. HRT isn't

[-] VerticaGG 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Disclaimer: the obligation should not fall on a marginalized person to educate those ignorant. As such, when i have patiently done so, and I get met with "UH ACTUALLY DEBATE ME BRO", I meet their bad faith and pseudoscience with "ok nazi, get blocked". First they came for the trans and the disabled, THEN the socialists and trade unionists. I am just fine being indiscriminate with those who prove themselves to be intolerant. Protect yr energy fam.

The reply: That's like saying an epileptic person should go without life-saving seizure supression medication

HRT is no different than any other medical intervention that allows a person to have a better quality of life by influencing the already existing systems of hormones and neurotransmitters for the given conditions/issues/wellbeing.

What's more, in the event that the human being making the choice with their doctor to use hormone blockers changes their mind, puberty resumes AND compensates such that the overall outcome is near-entirely unchanged compared to if had they not used blockers. (And are much less likely to self-harm or take their own life overall)

The misinformation about trans kids and puberty is honestly audacious, such that anyone who actually cares about Trans People's safety, well being and happiness would recognize such if they so much as scratch at the surface of current medical knowledge.

Trans people are not your science experiment.

One's medical choices are noone's business but that human being and their doctor. Parental ownership over children is quite a flawed institution when many parents are absentee, and that's before you figure in the lack of educaction about, misinformation about, and outright internalized bigotry for trans people -- which many parents fail their children by not confronting, unpacking...but instead making the problem of the small human being who has no legal standing in our rancidly unjust systems. This society believes itself more civilized than barbarians or cro-magnons or marauding vikings or australopithecus...which only multiplies it's vicious indifferent violent tendencies.

[-] NotBillMurray@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

"If God had wanted you to regulate your glucose levels he wouldn't have given you type 1 diabetes. Now give me your goddam insulin!"

[-] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

That's like saying an epileptic person should go without life-saving seizure suppression medication

Google false equivalency. 1.2% of people experience epilepsy. 100% of people experience puberty. Epilepsy requires intervention BECAUSE it isn't normal. So my argument still tracks.

Also, just because someone doesn't like an experience doesn't necessarily mean that it should not occur. People don't like getting their wisdom teeth removed but it's a process that must take place. And this is especially true with life changing decisions like HRT. Putting a decision so monumental into the hands of an individual still trying to figure out what career path they would like to take is borderline insane.

Also, I'm going to need some sources on the effects of HRT being easily reversed after treatment stops, because there is a point at which this procedure becomes somewhat permanent. Take for example the case of Chloe Cole who I'm pretty sure you've heard of.

[-] VerticaGG 5 points 1 day ago

"Normal"

Okay nazi. Ez block.

[-] CubbyTustard@reddthat.com 2 points 1 day ago

this thread has been really great for bringing them out of the woodwork to block!

[-] GhiLA@sh.itjust.works 54 points 2 days ago

I'm a southerner. Take what I'm about to tell you as close to the grain of the problem as possible, because it is.

Here's the thing. 9 times out of 10, a Southern man is going to meet a lone trans or gay person, have a pleasant experience talking to them and go about their day, they even make friends with the person, spend years talking to them, send gifts, become family members, etc.

But you know what?

Behind closed doors, it's "fuck those trannies", "not in my schools", etc. My mom does it, her sister does it, my dad did it. It's hypocrisy at an extreme level while also ignoring it at an extreme level.

"Well I have gay friends... I'm not homowhatzit"

THEY'RE TEACHING WHAT!?

"Double Standard" might as well be the tagline for the entire South. They'll protect their religion and the expectations put on them by their parents and social norms on a general level across the board, while still shaking hands and eating cake with their lgbtq+ buddies.

Just remember any southerner is one thought from God away from stabbing you in the back at all times, because no matter how close you get to them, even as a family member, that book and the expectations behind it means more, was beat into them more, every day since they were born until you met them.

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[-] CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.cafe 3 points 1 day ago

As others have said, one did shoot up a school (and the MSM hid the manifesto & details forever). As your comment proves, they found out the shooter was trans & they tried to memory-hole that real hard. But that's besides the point; evil & depraved people will be evil & depraved people. Doesn't matter, trans or not.

Main conservative talking points against trans people: They do not produce children, trans people are categorized as having a mental illness that should be treated instead of chopping off body parts, they really don't like when health insurance money and/or tax dollars pay for elective surgery & treatments, fully transitioned people have their genitals mutilated & they'll never experience an orgasm, once they're chopped up a not insignificant number of trans people experience regret (permanent consequences for acting on temporary feelings), and trans people are more likely than the general population to have depression & commit suicide.

With well-intentioned conservatives, it's actually coming from place of care & compassion. They don't want people to hurt themselves, deprive them of families & fullness of sexuality, or see them despair post-op & kill themselves.

[-] VerticaGG 3 points 1 day ago

Idk why OP feels it neccesary to conflate trans people with school shooters.

Three components im enthusiastic to educate about on that note:

  1. https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/mar/31/no-evidence-growing-trend-trans-radicalization-or/l

And 2) Shooters have been overwhelmingly men, overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly boys-and-men. A majority of manifestos have direct mention of Right-wing extremism, oft inspired by the Turner Diaries and the like.

  1. What causes violent crime in society, and are there existing societies we can look to?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/jp3q4p/comment/gbesw1p/

the short version is that it starts in the home.

Much violent crime can be traced back to cultural factors. Violent crime, such as murder, would probably decrease dramatically in an anarchist society because most of its causes — poverty, televised glorification of violence, prisons and police, warfare, sexism, and the normalization of individualistic and anti-social behaviors — would disappear or decrease.

The differences between two Zapotec communities illustrates that peace is a choice. The Zapotec are a sedentary agrarian indigenous nation living on land that is now claimed by the state of Mexico. One Zapotec community, La Paz, has a yearly homicide rate of 3.4/100,000. A neighboring Zapotec community has the much higher homicide rate of 18.1/100,000. What social attributes go along with the more peaceful way of life? Unlike their more violent neighbors, the La Paz Zapotec do not beat children; accordingly, children see less violence and use less violence in their play. Similarly, wife-beating is rare and not considered acceptable; women are considered equal to men, and enjoy an autonomous economic activity that is important to the life of the community so they are not dependent on men. Regarding child-rearing, the implications of this particular comparison are corroborated by at least one cross-cultural study on socialization, which found that warm, affectionate socialization techniques correlate with low levels of conflict in society.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works

As for the re-emergence of hierarchies, I think that the notion of anarchism is essentially 'checks and balances' turned up to 11. You get to a society that's an ecosystem of fluid social relationships, and an anti-authoritarian culture which makes it impossible in a million ways for anyone to accumulate power. If we could get there, I think it would be more robust than current liberal democracy, where the branches of government can cooperate and you need buy-in from less people to enable power to be accumulated.

IMO, good anarchist praxis is to 1) encourage and popularize anti-authoritarian parenting methods and 2) build strong community groups and mutual aid networks.

I concur with this analysis and conclusion.

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this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2024
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