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[-] ModestMeme@lemm.ee 140 points 8 months ago

Y’all had a choice between less-than-perfect & and straight up hatred. Your choice was to let hate reign. And now you’re gloating about it. So fuck you for that. And your quaint meme is the equivalent of smearing your own shit on the wall in a tepid little tantrum, complete with wrongly framed arguments. Go ahead and downvote me or write a pithy faux angry response. This is social media. It’s fucking meaningless. Voting had meaning. As do the mass deportations that are the cornerstone of Trump’s campaign promises. You petty fucks.

[-] BluesF@lemmy.world 57 points 8 months ago

I agree with both you and the meme. You're right that everyone should have sucked it up and voted for Kamala anyway. The meme is right because the Dems fucked this royally at several stages. Yes, American voters have made a decision that I massively disagree with... But you also have to recognise the vast political mistakes the party have made that led to this point.

[-] leisesprecher@feddit.org 35 points 8 months ago

I have no skin in this game, but if the two options are that clear, you absolutely can blame the voters.

At the end of the day, this rhetoric is trying to find absolution by delegating responsibility to a higher authority. Not we, the voters, are wrong, it's the party elites, that forced us to vote fascism into power because the other offer wasn't good enough. It's not our fault, it's theirs.

No, you don't get a pass. Germany didn't get a pass, either. And rightly so.

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[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Yeah. Fuck.

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[-] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 29 points 8 months ago

Thank you. Republicans did all these things and won. These posts look like a narrative being pushed to divide us further.

[-] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago

I voted for her. This meme is still correct.

[-] DiagnosedADHD@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Nothing is changing. The voters won't change. The DNC must be held accountable now.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

I agree, and said so in 80, 84, 88, 2000, 2004, and 2016.

“If only they had done-“ still ignores two key points:

  • Anyone can step up, so . . . where are these political masterminds the other 1400 days
  • running a political party, or any organization with thousands of people in it, is hard as shit
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[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

No, no, but they 'understand' the choice of abstainers to embrace fascism.

It rings as hollow to me as the annual pancake-breakfast op-ed by city liberals before every fucking election about how rural Republicans have Legitimate Grievances(tm).

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[-] traches@sh.itjust.works 52 points 8 months ago

Maybe I’m not that smart, but shouldn’t we blame the fascists and the people who voted for the fascists for the impending fascism?

[-] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Blame them and the fake leftists trying to pretend democrats lost for not being left enough. Both are responsible for the impending fascism.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Or the genocide Joe/Harris or blue maga crowd.

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[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 11 points 8 months ago

There's plenty of blame to go around. One thing a politician needs to do is effectively sell themselves to the people who will be voting. Harris spent a lot of time selling herself to Republicans.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/24/us/politics/kamala-harris-progressives-democrats.html

The people who voted for the fascists were always going to vote for the fascists.

I have no need or desire to argue with you about it. There is no end to people smarter and more eloquent than I who are explaining the exact same thing in more detail than I could, from Bernie Sanders to Rolling Stone.

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[-] DiagnosedADHD@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Turnout didn't change for Trump. In fact it was less than 2020. What happened was a repeat of 2016, this is the third time they put up an establishment candidate, when it's been glaringly obvious Americans on the left and right are tired of that. The DNC is going to eat a lot of the blame this time--if not the majority, there are hardly any excuses this time.

They'd rather have Trump than a non establishment candidate they can't control.

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[-] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

This election has a remarkable ability to make people forget about the magic of Multiple Causes ™️

But it's of course overwhelmingly the nazis' fault, yes.

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[-] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 30 points 8 months ago

"Unpopular"? Wasn't everyone stoked when Harris took over? Genuine question.

[-] HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee 36 points 8 months ago

People were stoked when she stepped in for Biden, but that was largely a result of Biden's unpopularity. Then she spent her campaign not building any distance between herself and him

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Bullshit. Not least of which was the alternative is horror.

This isn’t anything close to what went “wrong”.

Harris had very little to do with it. The DNC, I mean, yeah it’s on them, but that’s still not all of it.

People are so goddamned stupid and confused, we’re gonna murder the planet because of it. That’s Harris’ fault? Fuck no.

[-] HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

You don't need to tell me the alternative is horror, but Harris absolutely deserves a lot of blame in botching this campaign. She ran a campaign that had a lot of parrelels to Hillary's, and brought out both Clintons at the convention. If you lose to Trump running a centrist campaign and taking unpopular positions in important swing States in a virtual repeat of 2016 and even bring the same people that lost in 2016 to be your campaign spokespeople you shouldn't get to throw up your hands and act like you couldn't do better.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Sure, it was a total repeat. Bullshit.

I don’t give a good goddamn if she went entirely underground and said absolutely nothing for the entire five months – there is zero excuse for not getting out and voting for her. ZERO.

This hand-wavy “wasn’t progressive enough“ bullshit is exactly the same as the genocide Joe bullshit. Promoted by many of the same people who wanted her to lose and will now enjoy that lovely reality. They can shut the fuck up about it because they didn’t lift a goddamn finger to help then, and they’re just out for taking cheap shots now.

Absolutely unironically, this is also the New York Times’ position.

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[-] jonne@infosec.pub 18 points 8 months ago

People were happy she's at least coherent, but she didn't exactly impress when she ran in the 2020 primaries, in fact, there were some stories after the fact about how badly that campaign was run.

[-] Kichae@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 months ago

She would have won primaries this time around, though. While conservatives primarily believe in the "right people for the job" (where "right people" here is defined by the social hierarchy), liberals believe in the "right way to do things". And the "right way" here would have been to give the VP her free pass at the general election.

But it's so clear that this campaign was run badly, too. They had all of the momentum coming out of the summer, and it just evaporated in September. You could feel it just as surely as you could feel the seasons change. It's still blowing my mind how they managed to drown themselves.

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[-] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 13 points 8 months ago

Then she started up with the “drill, baby, drill!” and the “build the wall!” and the “genocide is fine”…

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[-] Kalkaline@leminal.space 13 points 8 months ago

Harris was an improvement over Biden, she wasn't Bernie or AOC, but miles ahead of Trump. I'd take Biden at this point, hell Biden with dementia would be better than what we got.

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 13 points 8 months ago

Speaking only for myself - sure - until she abandoned all progressive stances and sprinted for the right, then allowed a Cheney (and other Republicans) to speak at the DNC while also refusing to give even a minute of podium time to anyone with a pro-Palestine viewpoint.

She turned right the moment she announced the candidacy and just kept moving further and further, as if somehow 1) All D votes were in the bag so it didn't matter if they were pissed and also 2) R was going to give any D candidate the time of day.

Didn't work out so well. It turns out that trying to become the watered down version of your opponent doesn't win a lot of good favor among the folks who put you in that position in the first place.

[-] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

100% Neoliberalism will always move to the right and normalize fascist ideology over improving the livelyhood of the working class. Progressive policies are popular with Republican voters too, that's the correct way to fracture the Republican base into voting Democrat.

Conceding to right-wing policies and disinformation, like on immigration, only alienates more of the Democratic base while bolstering Republican voters support for the Republican party.

Polls on campaign messaging

How to Win a Swing Voter in Seven Days

“The View” Alternate Universe: Break From Biden in Interviews, Play the Hits in Ads

Polls on policy

How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World

Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college

Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones

Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind

Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support

Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies

Tim Walz's Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States

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[-] DiagnosedADHD@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Stoked, lol. Relieved is more like it. Biden and Kamala were a fucking embarrassment for Democrats. The DNC annointed a geriatric and a wildly unpopular VP for 2020. It's a fucking miracle they won.

[-] Zorsith 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

"Stoked" is definitely a word. "Mildly relieved but a little pissed" is a more accurate phrase.

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[-] Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 24 points 8 months ago

This was a race between a B student and an orangutan throwing feces everywhere. We're spending all our time talking about the questions the B student got wrong, but in the meantime we voted the orangutan as valedictorian and all he did was smear shit on the test and try to hump the microphone stand.

No her mistakes aren't the problem. The problem is we're willing to elect a monkey to shit on everything and blame an average decent person for losing.

......

Fuck.....

A class of kids would TOTALLY elect a monkey..... We're just old high schoolers...... We're so fucked......

[-] tyo_ukko@sopuli.xyz 6 points 8 months ago

Well that's the problem, innit? The orange shit heap will get a good chunk of votes from the idiots no matter what. So the other candidate needs to be an A grade to attract the rest of the votes, otherwise the pile of feces will win. At this point it's obvious the diarrhea puddle can do whatever he wants and still get his share of votes, so asking why he can do and say whatever and get away with it is pointless.

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[-] Catoblepas 22 points 8 months ago

The people going absolutely ballistic over pointing out the flaws of the Harris campaign are wild. If seeing someone criticize a politician makes you that upset, in all sincerity, log off. If you can’t differentiate criticizing a politician, campaign, and party from supporting their opponent, you have been sucked into an anxiety/rage spiral and you’re helping nobody, especially yourself.

There is nothing useful in screaming at your allies because you don’t like seeing the post-mortem. And make no mistake, anyone who didn’t vote Trump is either your ally or someone you need to make your ally. Some Trump voters are even going to need to be your allies when they see and regret what they did.

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[-] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

Every time a Democrat loses, blue voters turn on each other and say that a lack of X or a policy change to Y would have won over the fence sitters in state Z. It's exhausting folks.

The party is driven by an oligarchy too, with multimillionaires as candidates and even a D governor who is a billionaire. Now that voting is done, please see the underlying argument for "both sides" - it isn't their policy but the make up of the organization. D and R will never be progressive or interested in the issues affecting the broad majority of folks. Dems use the worst consultants and listen to "moderates" more than their dedicated but inactive voters. They are trying too hard to include Rs that don't want them and it's a bad look. The desperation undercuts any message about hope.

It means the money is being spent in many wrong places for voters who will never be helpful. it means that even though D campaigns raised more money, it was frivolously wasted.

The Democrats need Gen Z to take over the party and push for a culture shift, seeking optimistic policies that generate actual hope. Institutional inertia is killing any hope the left can find. Remember when Michael Bloomberg spent $500 million to derail Bernie's campaign trail momentum which allowed Biden to win New Hampshire and become the presumptive nominee even though he had far fewer wins than Bernie? There are bad actors running things for the Dems and they are steering the party into ineffective effort each election.

[-] PunnyName@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Hatred and racism didn't win because the other party had an non-perfect policy.

Hatred and racism won because not enough people cared to vote against it.

You're fucking complicit. And when you're complicit with fascism, you're also a fascist.

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 14 points 8 months ago

You’re fucking complicit.

No my dude, I voted for her. I don't agree with the decision from those who didn't vote or voted elsewhere.

But I understand. /ChrisRock

[-] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 14 points 8 months ago

That sentiment might be the one that pisses me off the most.

I wanted her to win. I voted for her myself.

I also saw how her campaign was fucking up constantly. Neutering Walz, embracing early 00s Republicans from Cheney to Frum, ceding all argument on immigration to the fascists...

The list goes on and on.

The Democrats had a billion dollars and all the goodwill in JULY. I'm so mad at them. The party needs to burn and something else needs to be rebuilt in its place.

I am not interested in voting for the candidate of choice of Liz Cheney, Richard Spencer, and the Lincoln Project.

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[-] uberfreeza@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

While it is true that voters absolutely should have turned out to vote for not-hitler over hitler, there are lessons that the dnc can learn from this. for example trump reaches normal, non-political people since conservatives go on talk shows like rogan and others and shows the "human" side of him. im not saying going on rogan would have saved the campaign, but democrats dont do any non-political talk shows until just before the election if they do any at all. As the surge in "did biden drop out" searches indicated, the electorate has no idea what the fuck is going on. if democrats want to reach the common person, they should go where the common person is. the undecided voters dont understand policy, so they vote for who they like more.

[-] 8000gnat@reddthat.com 9 points 8 months ago

I've been thinking about "don't hold primaries" since reading this

If you couldn't see that Harris would be near-infinitely better than Trump, you might be the problem

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 15 points 8 months ago

Sorry, I forgot I have to preface every criticism with "I voted for Harris, but"

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[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 months ago

Last part is missing lose 3 state trifectas that went purple.

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this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
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