*Permanently deleted* : askbeehaw

[-] Axolotling@beehaw.org 16 points 1 year ago

Don't know how to do quotes here but:

"Any community always ends up attracting downvotes and trolls, and the conventional resources such as the suicide hotline chat are only meant to keep you talking and don't help discuss chronic problems."

This is pretty much it right here. It boils down to qualifications, money, and the anonymous nature of the internet. It's hard to give real and useful advice to someone based off of only a couple of internet posts.

Offline, are you gonna run into shitty therapists who deserve to have their license revoked? Yes absolutely. But the people who can help have qualifications and charge a lot of money for their time. They're not gonna come on the internet and dispense useless or generic advice to strangers. It would be a waste of everyone's time, not to mention the whole issue with separating work from life.

[-] Thugosaurus_Rex@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

This is it, and it's really a broader issue with online communities for a lot of professional services in general, whether it be mental healthcare or medicine or legal services, etc. I'd argue it's not just difficult to give real or helpful advice through these communities, but also irresponsible and potentially negligent, and that's not even going into professional ethics issues like patient confidentiality or attorney client privilege or a whole host of other ethical concerns.

Professional services generally fall into a bucket of "above the internet's pay grade." You really need a licensed professional, but a licensed professional isn't going to be distributing advice over a community forum, both because it's typically a paid service and because they really can't even if they wanted to.

Options are at least expanding for remote professional services, and I'd recommend looking into those options if you need specific help. I'm also not saying communities are bad and they can be great for general support and community, but they're not a replacement for licensed professional services when those services are needed.

[-] raccoona_nongrata@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

I think online there's a tendency for communities focused on mental health to consist of more people who need help than those who are in a position to really give it.

Not that I don't think there's value in online communities of people supporting eachother deliberately, but I think it can sometimes be like two people each with a broken leg helping one another.

A person who is in a good state of mental health and equipped to help those who need it isn't necessarily going to be looking for mental health support communities unless it's a deliberate calling they have, in which case they probably do it professionally anyway.

This is why I think the go to suggestion ends up being to find a therapist, or someone in your real life that you trust if available. It's the ideal, if available.

As far as online support, I think the best way is to go to where the mentally healthy people are and form a more organic support network. Try and make friends by doing things online (ex. Participating in hobby forums and discords, joining gaming communities etc.) because then you are more likely to be surrounded by group of average people who can maybe help prop you up indirectly as you form friendships.

I only suggest this because looking back on the most positive and supportive experiences I've had online during low points in my life they were with friends I'd met through online communities. Talking in IRC channels, forum DMs, steam chat, discord etc. I was able to lean on those people a bit to get me past the worst of it.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

I see what you're saying, and that's actually one of the things that inspired this post. I say this in the most endearing way possible, but your first statement describes all of the discord servers I'm in tbh. There are a lot of people hurting, and a major shortage of resources to cope, especially for those who are unemployed or on the lower end of the income scale. I've even opened my inbox and ears, but like you said, I'm certainly in no position to give help beyond actively listening and being present.

[-] raccoona_nongrata@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

For certain, truly stable, healthy people do seem to be the exception rather than the rule. And I don't mean to say it should be all on them to help those who need it, there's value in everyone doing what little they can where they can even if they're struggling themselves.

Listening and being present is helpful, at least to me. Therapy is itself a way of getting people to sort of explore and analyze themselves, the therapist is there mainly to gently prod you along and give you a more objective, outside perspective when necessary that's detatched from the normal kind of social dance of trying to hide our vulnerabilities and pain. We can sometimes be that for one another to differing degrees.

Perhaps then it's more about everyone picking their moment -- when you're strong help others, when you're feeling weak look for those you can lean on until it passes.

I dunno, seems like a lot of words to more or less be saying nothing, lol. I'm figuring it out as much as anyone else.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

No, this is actually thought provoking. I personally find it hard to make firm statements about myself and who I am and what I'm like because we are such complex, dynamic creatures. I even have a hard time with questions like, "Are you an introvert or extrovert?"

[+] AnalogyAddict@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

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[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Hmmm I'm not sure I agree. As a gay man living in South Dakota, I've found my online communities to be far less problematic and far more helpful than those I interact with in real life on a regular basis, and I'd include my experiences with credentialed therapists and addiction recovery groups in that assessment.

[-] renard_roux@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

A thought — looking at your post, and the other comment here, it sounds like you are looking for a community with very low tolerance for trolls and the like. Sounds familiar... 🤔

Maybe ask the BeeHaw mods if there's room for the community that you're looking for: /c/mentalhealth.

I wouldn't be surprised if they'd be worried about the responsibility of such a place, both in terms of modding and I guess legal liability, but it can't hurt to ask, right? Try asking in /c/beehawsupport.

It's not the same (potential) can of worms, but we already have /c/neurodivergent.

BeeHaw is specifically a safe space; if what you're looking for could exist, I personally can't imagine a better home for it.

[+] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

[deleted]

[-] renard_roux@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Good job! 👏

Also, if there is some sort of feeling that legal liability could be an issue, you might try suggesting that the proposed community had an extended set of rules, such as "no medical advice", "suicide talk must be reported", etc. And maybe some guidelines with standard responses to the latter, links to prevention hotlines, that sort of thing.

A suggestion could be to peruse Reddit for a similar community, specifically to look at their rules, standard responses, etc.

Best of luck! 😃 And do report back here if you post a proposal, I'll gladly pop by for support and upvotes 👌

[-] PostmodernPythia@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

If you link to suicide hotlines, mention which ones can send cops (under the guise of EMS) to your door without your consent. (For instance, I’d never suggest 988 because of this.) That way, users know you know what’s up and that they can trust the group’s info. And given cops’ record of shooting mentally ill people in crisis, it’s pretty important.

[-] renard_roux@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think catering to a worldwide audience and offering options for all the available countries would be a good addition to your suggestion.

I live in Scandinavia, and the cops try really hard not to kill people here, mentally ill or otherwise.

Similarly, I don't know what 988 is and that information would be very unhelpful if I were in a situation where I needed help.

In essence, I'm all for doing some deep thinking about what information to give, and taking various national idiosyncracy into account. As long as we keep in mind that not everyone is an American.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

This is an excellent point and something I will keep in mind as I type up my post.

[-] PostmodernPythia@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

I’m trying to provide information to prevent people from getting killed, and you’re policing my not being Euro-inclusive enough? Srsly?

[-] renard_roux@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

I'm not policing anyone, I was pointing out the importance of being inclusive. If you feel like I was fishing for Euro-inclusivity, you're missing the point — that would be just as fruitless as being America-centric. I was suggesting a global mindset, again, to prevent people from getting killed.

If you feel the need to take offense, I'll freely admit that my comment could also be viewed as a thinly veiled jab at a "first-world" country that is collectively afraid of being killed by its own police force, so much so that a citizen would be compelled to point out the importance of only using suicide prevention services that don't involve the police.

Either way, it's a moot point, as the mods have definitively shot down the idea of a mental health community on BeeHaw (see nearby comments).

I'm genuinely sorry if my comment annoyed you, as that was not my intention, and doesn't add anything to my overall happiness. I hope you won't spend too much time thinking about it, and that you have a nice Monday 🙂

[-] PostmodernPythia@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Thank you. I’m sorry. There’s a vocal segment in spaces like this that goes beyond trying to make sure Americans don’t manifest destiny the internet (totally fair) and crosses the line into attacking anything about us (not just the many, many, justified parts). I may have overreacted, but yes, living in a country where calling a suicide hotline could result in being shot by a police officer heightens my emotional response here. Thank you for being understanding.

[-] renard_roux@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Thank you, but no need to apologize, I get where you're coming from.

One of my passports is American (mom is an expat), so I probably spend more time reading American news than most of my countrymen. It's not unlikely that this, in turn, can foster a bit of antipathy from time to time; even if I don't get affected directly by all the horrible stuff (especially everything instigated by the right and their collective boner for fascism and hatred), it's frustrating too look on from the sidelines when you feel you have a connection, however tenuous.

People actively working against their own self-interests and buying into the populist narratives is mind-blowing, and the dumpster pyre just keeps growing. And it's difficult to look away, however morbid the fascination may be.

It's also leaking. The rise of the right all over the globe is scary as fuck, and while America can't take the full blame, the normalization of fascism that the American right is peddling (quite successfully) is making everything worse, rapidly.

So yeah, my comment could probably have been worded better, and I'll work on being better going forward. I'll also keep voting in every American election, even if I'm a natural born expat. It's the least I can do (and probably also the most).

I hope you have the resources to do the same. If only elections could become national holidays like many have proposed, but the right will never allow that, and they will make sure that it never happens.

Making sure voting is a luxury that many can't afford was a damned clever move; being poor and struggling now effectively means you're too poor to vote in many places, and having to rely on the privileged to do the right thing. And too many aren't.

I honestly have a hard time seeing a happy ending on the horizon these days, and it's bloody depressing.

[-] Gaywallet@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d be worried about the responsibility of such a place, both in terms of modding and I guess legal liability, but it can’t hurt to ask, right? Try asking in /c/beehawsupport.

Mental health is one of the few communities that fall into a general category of 'often problematic on the internet' due to a confluence of factors noted already in this post as well as a few not mentioned - namely that people who are not educated can cause serious and real harm to others with bad or misinformed advice. In the same way that you shouldn't ask for legal advice from a random individual, asking for mental health advice online can be fraught with bad responses/answers. At this point in time we're not entertaining the idea.

Tagging @LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org for transparency

[-] renard_roux@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Makes total sense, and I respect you and the team's decision on the matter 😊

I hadn't really thought the 'bad advice' angle through, thank you for the clarification.

[-] storksforlegs@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I know it can be hard to find for sure, but there is a lot of online mental health support available. I'm not sure about actual free forum communities, but that might be becuase of privacy issues or the difficulty of both moderating and providing safe healthy advice.

But there are online options for therapy. Some of it is free, but most requires a fee - although there are often sliding scale options (when councelors offer lower fees if cost is an issue, there's more who offer this than you'd think.) Finding help remotely is the way to go, it's both more affordable and you can take the time to find someone who is right for you. I use an online therapist, she lives a few hours away and it took a few attempts to find the right fit, but it's worth it.

There is 7 cups - they offer a lot of options. They provide just someone to talk to (volunteers, it's free) as well as affordable options for counceling. https://www.7cups.com/

I'd also recommend Psychology Today, which lets you search for therapists both locally and online. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists

I used Psychology Today to find my therapist (there's a Canadian version of the site) The have profiles and contact info for many, MANY therapists and psychologists, all accredited and professional. Most will be happy to tell you their rates, or offer either a free or very low cost introductory session (to see if you are the right fit)

There are also some free, self-directed therapy options in the form of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. A lot of it can be done yourself, as it involves worksheets and exercises. It's actually very effective despite sounding maybe like busy work? Hehe - I've also had success using CBT, both with therapists and using self-directed workbooks.

Here is a good introduction, very thorough and with links for further reading: https://positivepsychology.com/cbt-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-techniques-worksheets/

The main website here also provides some good, free resources and articles by certified councelors. https://positivepsychology.com/

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Thank you very much for the resources. It's interesting searching in that second link you provided because there are some therapists listed in my community, but neither of the two who I saw.

It gets discouraging not having much money, but I'll try that 7cups free service first and see if I like it.

Thanks!

[-] storksforlegs@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Great!! I hope it helps. :) I highly recommend looking into CBT as well, it's not for everyone, but there's a lot of CBT exercises you can do on your own (also free)

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Thanks, I've set up my 7cups account. I see there is a $7.99/month tier that doesn't include therapy, but has a lot more resources than basic. I think I'll try it to get a feel for the community. I could probably manage $150/month if I budget correctly, and that's a lot of therapy for the price vs. most counseling services irl.

[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Real-life therapists aren't any better.

Most mental health problems, I suspect, are the result of socioeconomic problems like price gouging and wage stagnation. Spending your whole life struggling to just barely avoid homelessness is not good for the mind. Neither is working for a boss who treats you like a slave, and let's face it, that's exactly what you are. No amount of talk or pills will fix that.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

I agree that this is much of the problem. Capitalism is designed to break anyone who's not part of the bourgeoisie.

But without going into detail (because things took a bad turn last time I did here), I've got some exacerbating circumstances beyond that (which admittedly is still related to capitalism since all help is behind some pretty high paywalls).

[-] throwsbooks@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

Honestly, I think part of it is that having an entire community of people suffering depressive symptoms becomes a depressing environment.

I'm sure I heard this in a Brene Brown video, but in order to be able to help someone else, you need to be in the right place yourself. Two empty glasses can't help fill each other. And most people can't help an entire community of struggling people, one glass can't help fill fifty, it's futile and self damaging to try. It's why we have professionals that do one on one therapy.

And, this might be unpopular, but I think historically this is why we have priests too. I'm not religious, but I think that community offers that to some people.

Sometimes people need to vent, and some people aren't lucky enough to be in a position where they can vent to anybody, but I don't know if diving into a community where you expose yourself to everyone else's problems too is the solution. Things like addictions counseling are controlled, with professionals at the helm, and often in small spaces, with a prescribed meeting time and an end.

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