It's bizarre to me that harcore vegans want to own a pet to begin with. Keeping bees for honey is bad, but separating a kitten from its mother at an early age and castrating it for your convenience and deciding how they live (restricted to an apartment or not) is totally fine?

I understand that most pets live a good life, but man, I can't bring myself to make choices like these. I mean there are ways to circumvent it (get an older cat from an asylum for example) but it doesn't really remove the "pet dilemma" to me.

I understand why vegans would be unhappy with that answer but it is the way it is.

I don't. Veganism is about the fact that humans can live without animal products, which is true. Not accepting that actual carnivores exist, even being unhappy with this means you're well in extremist nutjob territory.

I am a vegan. While my dogs were alive they ate meat as well as veggies. It seems to me that a lot of vegans don't realise that it's a scale and not binary. The whole philosophy of veganism is "as much as you are able" so I guess there is extremism everywhere.

I'm vegan and I don't know why these "vegans" are towing the line to to include non-human species. It's just as gross for vegan humans to apply their values to values in a dominant manner as it is for non-vegans to. Literally vegans doing this is antithesis to the entire cause.

I'm glad they got slapped. You'll always have idiots in a movement I guess...

It's a microcosm for science denial or misunderstanding of all kinds. Vegan cats and antivax may not seem related but the underlying misinformation is not dissimilar.

I tried following up on the vegan cat research being posted and it was very difficult to get a solid answer. There are multiple brands of vegan cat food marketed and sold, and it isn't outrageous to believe that our industrial society could find an ethical way to source the necessary nutrients and enrich the cat food.

But also there's very few studies that test the claims of the vegan cat food. What few meta-analysis exist, and anecdotes online, would suggest that all those foods lack certain critical nutrients for long-term feline health. But the anecdotes are drowned out by well-intentioned people who want to believe it works, and the studies are small, rare, hard to read, and locked behind paywalls.

Why do people even try to keep cats on vegan diet? It was your fucking choice, not the cats.

Im vegetarian, my cat eats meat. Im not gonna force anything on him unless he comes to me and tells me he wants to try it.

A lot of vegans will hate this, but YOU'RE NOT A FUCKING SCIENTIST! Drop all the journals and research you want, but your pet is not a lab-controlled experiment. Besides, something being in a journal doesn't make it true. If it is regularly cited as true, and has swept into general understanding of how to feed a pet, then it's factual...

I'm all for vegans living their best lives. Don't force it on a pet that doesn't know better. Vegans harming animals through their own food choices isn't a new thing, ask most vets and they'll have seen the effects of malnutrition from someone that thought that they knew better.

The reason cats can't be vegan is that they cannot produce an amino acid called taurine, which is something dogs and humans can produce (but which we also get sometimes from dietary sources).

Most dietary sources of taurine are meat. This is why dogs and humans "can be vegan" but cats "can't". However, vegan taurine is made and can be bought as a supplement, both for humans (if you want to ensure you get some taurine in your diet), but also in properly made vegan cat food.

It seems to me then that cats can be vegan, just not without intentional effort to ensure proper supplementation of taurine. That is, they couldn't be vegan in the wild (where the only source of taurine is meat) and you can't just start to feed them a vegan diet without taurine and expect the cat to be healthy and survive.

In fact, cats fed a proper vegan diet tend to have better health:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10499249/

I think the question is really what you are feeding your "vegan" cat: if you have managed to find (or make) a properly fortified vegan cat food it is theoretically possible to feed your cat a vegan diet.

This all feels a bit like the "controversy" around feeding young children and babies a vegan diet: done poorly it can be catastrophic (pun not intended), but it's entirely possible to have a healthy vegan diet when enough effort is put into ensuring nutritional needs are actually satisfied.

That said, I also know of two other vegan responses:

1. for some vegans, having pets is not vegan to begin with, so a "vegan cat" is a contradiction in terms even if you fed them a vegan diet, you still wouldn't be an ethical vegan by owning a cat. This is admittedly a less commonly held view which centers ethical veganism on the rights of animals to have autonomy, which if plausible in some ways seems at least impractical in the case of domesticated animals. There are questions of the harm that might be caused by choosing to treat cats not as pets but as autonomy-rights-bearing "wild" animals, but those ethical vegans might rightly point out this doesn't undo the cat's rights and the practical questions should be handled separately.
2. most vegans I know IRL just feed cats a non-vegan diet, acknowledging it is safer and more reasonable for their cat than trying to figure out a way to feed them a vegan diet. Good vegan cat food isn't that common or easy to find as far as I know, and I assume it would be outrageously expensive.

Ask your vet what they think about a vegan diet for your pets. They will tell you "no". That should really be the end to the discussion, but I guess these guys think they know better than actual experts.

Jeez that is awful! People: if you want a vegan pet, get a rabbit! They are so sweet! There are tons of them in the shelter system, especially after Easter.

I swear they’re the funniest and most affectionate four legged friends around!

I was vegan for 8 years and during that time I didn't talk to anyone about it other than to say, "I don't eat that."

I say that to say this - vegans are insufferable and a large reason why I quit the community and went back to omnivore. Even after 8 years, other vegans were still 'more vegan' and would nitpick the dumbest stuff.

"Bro, did you eat a date? That killed a bee or something. Not cool."

Shut up with that. Let me eat my damn fruit.

I was healthier though. But, to be fair, I was younger.

Between them and Linux evangelicals, this place can be pretty annoying at times.

I stick with Margaret Cho’s advice on vegans from her Assassin tour back in 2005:

And especially, especially, don't fuck with vegans. Do not look vegans in the eye. If you get into an argument with a vegan, say "I'm wrong" and run away as fast as you can. Do not fuck with vegans because they will fuck you up...BECAUSE THEY'RE HUNGRY.

Exactly my experience. I often heard stories of vegans being like that, but I never ever saw it so I thought it was just made up to belittle vegans.

Then I joined lemmy and found out that I'm apparently in favour of massacres, slavery and rape because I consume meat/milk/eggs from time to time.

I imagine the vast majority of vegans just go about their lives and resprectfully discuss the ethics of animal consumption when the topic comes up, but these loud militant members really make vegans look bad and they sure as hell make it so that even less people consider going vegan

As a vegan, can confirm.

When I was on reddit, I could not be part of the r/vegan community, it was fucked.

The community here on Lemmy was better (though I wasn't subbed because these communities are mostly newcomers to the vegan scene coming fresh off the high of being morally superior to the carnists).

The good vegan communities were the ones focused on recipes.

If you want to discus animal liberation, good, go do that, but I don't want to my feed to be a combination of dinner and animal abuse. I'm trying to move past that...

Whoah whoah whoah. Let's chill with the general fuck vegans statement. Most vegans are just people. Now the psycho vegans who try to make their cats eat vegan. Fuck those people. But broad statements like "fuck this group" tend to stick in people's heads and promote undeserved hate. "Fuck the Nazi's"? Yeah. "Fuck Germans"? No.

*coughs weakly

Just so you're aware, you didn't reply to any comment

What the hell? If a human decides to go vegan, then great! But forcing a CARNIVOROUS animal into it is just animal abuse.