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I was only gone for a day or two...
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2024
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Vegans argued that cats, which are obligate carnivores, can eat a vegan diet safely. Lemmy.world admin removed the posts for being misinformation, and the vegan community threw a fit over it.
Ask your vet what they think about a vegan diet for your pets. They will tell you "no". That should really be the end to the discussion, but I guess these guys think they know better than actual experts.
It's so sad, because veganism is a good force in our culture. Look at all of the vegan meat alternatives and more and more restaurants that have to have at least vegetarian options in certain areas. That wasn't a thing 20 years ago.
Vegan diets help the environment and improve health. But many vegans get this brain rot, probably a consequence of a superiority complex where they have to police everything around them. It happens in a lot of communities.
I'm not a vegan. But the idea has me eating less and less meat every year.
I imagine most vegans are just ordinary people. And hell, good on them for making the environmentally friendly choice. I've been excited that my local stores are starting to carry plant-based alternatives that aren't expensive as hell. Fuck are the weirdos loud, though.
Impossible burgers are better than beef burgers and I’m fully prepared to die on this hill.
But I still eat meat, I just like that there’s options
I wouldn't mind switching to a complete vegetarian diet if they can get deep-fried chicken substitutes right.
I've made beyond smash burgers that are terrible for you, but sooo tasty.
I've had some baller chicken fried tofu.
KFC has a very good breaded fake chicken burger
Not better...but 95% there. I will order it anytime I can if it's reasonable price.
Some of it can be really tasty! Cooking vegetarian all the time isn't as hard as it used to be. Gotta keep that cholesterol down 🤪
Okay, I troll the hell out of vegans online, because it's easy and always entertaining. So, anyone coming along after this, take that into account.
But, you nailed it. There's a subsection of vegans that treat it like a religion, and anyone else as infidels. That superiority complex, the smugness is a huge detriment to vegan living and principles.
But (and here's why I made the disclaimer), they're a minority overall. I know too many vegans irl that are chill, wonderful people following their beliefs and ideals without being jerks about it. Vegetarians too, though that's tangential.
It's really online that the asshole hats get put on the most, and usually only on sites/services that make it easy to be anonymous. Which is a good thing! Anonymous discourse is not just important, it's vital to part of humans becoming better than what we are. But there will always be people that hide their true selves until they're anonymous and can feel safe, and that includes people that are smug, arrogant assholes down deep. It also includes people that don't feel safe being an outsider or dissenter, and people that are awesome down deep, but have to keep up a front irl.
Anyway my point is that we, the non vegans of the world, have to be careful to not forget the human. Vegans are mostly deeply compassionate, kind souls that want the best for anyone and everyone, including animals. We don't have to agree with them, just remember that the loudest, most obnoxious voices aren't the sum total of the vegan community.
I think people confuse the Political Based Vegan lifestyle and the Dietary Plant-based Vegan. They are not the same. Most people hate the political wing because they just cannot shut up. I do not want to be subjected to your religion, and you are not helping the animals you claim to. Dietary people just choose healthier options for themselves and don't evangelize to others.
This checks the Vegan Bullshit Bingo:
Calling veganism a religion sounds like an attempt at discrediting it as unreasonable and irrational, just to not seriously deal with it. As veganism is based on facts, logic and common sense, it is the exact opposite of a religion. Consuming animal products though, mostly means blindly following irrational traditions and ignoring the facts or refusing them by reasoning: "That's how we've always done it". That sounds more like a religion to me...
No one said veganism is a religion, but it IS a political standpoint and philosophical and moral practice.
Just read the first two paragraphs of wikipedia, it makes it clear.
Following a plant based diet is one thing, being a Vegan is different.
You are a carnist. That's a political standpoint and philosophical and moral practice as well. You might not consider youself a carnist, you think you're just normal because eating like a handfull of animals and drinking one animals mothers milk was normalised to you from birth. I was raised a carnist too. Yet it's a decision, not a necessity. We don't need meat and milk to survive, we choose to kill animals because we are accustumed to the taste. So we keep the system running.
you don't know what anyone else needs.
almost no one does that at all
Is this your reply? Picking words instead of staying in the conversation? Alright:
We pay slaves to kill animals for us because we are accustomed to the taste. What now?
I've never done that. most people haven't.
I get the climate change vegans, but not the hurt animals vegans. We live on earth, and in case people haven’t noticed, we have to kill to survive. If you don’t eat meat, you’re still hurting plants to eat, and most of the time we’re eating the sexual organs or the offspring of plants.
My MIL likes to pull out the phrase "indoctornated" anytime a doctor/vet/educated professional disagrees with her hardcore plant based diet views for all people and animals
Sovereign: "assuming direct control"
But they Did tHerY owN rEsEaRCH
They're alumni of FBU.
“But someone who calls themselves a professor made a 4 hour long YouTube essay on how they caaan be vegan come on click the link!!!”
I think it can be done for dog if you are careful and know what you are doing. However, I still wouldn't prioritize ethical views over the well being of my pets. That is very much animal abuse.
Jeez that is awful! People: if you want a vegan pet, get a rabbit! They are so sweet! There are tons of them in the shelter system, especially after Easter.
I swear they’re the funniest and most affectionate four legged friends around!
I really hate how many people are spreading disinfo for no reason here. We should be better than that.
The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it's functional.
The admins then overstepped and removed such comments.
I'm not going to argue the validity of any of those claims as I'm not a vegan and I don't care to research, but the vegan mods were a lot more reasonable than they're being painted here.
Uh. Hardly reasonable.
Are you just posting a random comment to me or what? What relevance does this have to the admin retaliations?
That's one of the Vegan mods on .world expressing their views on vegan diets for cats. That's not "The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it’s functional.", that's outright "Science doesn't know shit" lunacy.
That's not the comment which caused this whole issue. It seems to me you're cherry picking out of context
Alright, since "Things the mods have said" isn't acceptable evidence for whether or not the mods are pushing ridiculous views on vegan diets for cats, and not just "The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it’s functional", I suppose them saying the ASPCA doesn't know what they're talking about, while THEIR simple 'common sense' allows them to understand a cat's TRUE dietary needs is also kosher?
This whole thing comes down to aggressively anti-scientific mods pushing misinformation and removing information to the contrary and getting removed by an admin for their troubles. Or was removing the link to the ASPCA for being 'misinformation' also a sign of how reasonable the c/Vegan mods were?
I don't give a single solitary fuck what happens to Rooki. Whether they were too quick to remove or too uncivil or what. But defending misinformation, or defending mods pushing misinformation as just being reasonable? That gets my dander up.
The commentary you're pointing is way more reasonable than you make it sound. I implore people to read the context themselves and not to trust summaries with rage bait agendas here.
Stop doing the reddit thing. Making people angry at people more radical than them isn't helping.
No, it's just politely worded. That's not reasonable. That's civility politics.
I agree. They absolutely should read the context, and the modlog.
Should people... not be angry at those who spread misinformation and suppress actual information to the contrary? Is there a 'get out of jail free' card you get once you get radical enough that permits you to spread misinformation, no moral qualms necessary? Whether they're 'more radical' or less shouldn't fucking matter, even assuming such a linear evaluation was valid.
I haven't seen them try to push misinfo. If anything, I've seen them post scientific articles supporting their claims and accepting that it's an imperfect solution for an imperfect world.
And yes, very radical people will have some radical fucking takes. Y'all are using this as a foothold to promote generalize anti-vegan hate in this thread. There's no nuance anymore, just bashing.
And yes, just trying to make people angry by painting all vegans as "let's feed our cats veggies, YOLO" when their approach was way more careful and nuanced, is fucked up
I literally quoted one of them.
You literally saw them remove articles to the contrary in the link provided.
Oh, okay, that's alright then, if they're radical, then they're allowed to have dangerous takes and spread misinformation without pushback. Pack it up everyone, let's go home!
And before you try "I didn't say there shouldn't be pushback", let me reiterate that this started because the c/Vegan mods removed an ASPCA link and argument they didn't like.
Some vegan bashing in highly upvoted comments:
Sorry mate, but there's no point in talking to you anymore. All you do is trying to ragebait and win the internet argument and there's no point in wasting time on that.
I repeat that people should look for themselves in the discussions the vegans had in public and in their own threads where they didn't have to be so defensive and adversarial in the face of rando hate. If you're interested, see for yourselves whether they were unscientific or not but please don't trust summaries like these who just want to make you dismiss radicals vegans without further thought.
You first claimed that they were being reasonable; when faced with clear evidence of the mods having very unreasonable positions on vegan cat diets and on scientific evidence more generally, you shifted to the claim that the mods being unreasonable wasn't the source of the issue (and was thus irrelevant); when presented with evidence of the mods putting up that selfsame unreasonable argument in the thread in dispute, you said it wasn't misinfo and was scientifically supported; and now that it's been pointed out that scientific information to the contrary was deliberately removed in that very comment thread by the mods pushing their view which, by both the material of the argument (appeal to common sense) and context, was founded on deeply unscientific positions, you say that all of that is well and fine, but people in this thread are just using it as an excuse to hate on vegans; when I display that the most upvoted comments in this thread are far from hating on vegans, you decry me as engaging in 'ragebait'.
You've come in determined to defend the c/Vegan mods, and the realities of the situation be damned. It's a reflexive reaction, and it's bullshit, and it deserves to be called out as much.
Are you done grandstanding? or should I get you a medal as well? It's ok, you can now have the last word.
Yeah i gotta agree with the other guy, coming off like a dick here.
Your comments have had no substance and have devolved into straight insults while the other guy constantly puts forth well reasoned points, even if you don't agree with them.
You told him not to do the reddit thing but your interactions with him have been pure reddit quality.
They have been providing sources and quotes to back up their points. You have not. You just seem upset that people don't agree with you lol.
You keep saying people should look into it themselves. This guy did, he's showing you what he found and you don't like it.
Wut...
Yeah, that's well and truly off the deep end. This is someone who I'd cross the road to avoid.
Good. I don't give a shit about what you put in your mouth. But if you think it's ok to give your pets a shit load of supplements for no reason at all other than forcing your extremism on helpless animals you're out of your mind.
As a vegan who spends no time associating with other vegans, because it's not a large part of my identity (other than watching cooking videos), these people are idiots who are getting high on being righteous.
So much so they overdosed and became animal abusers.
Quite ironic. Funny, if it weren't causing harm.