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The simplicity of it is logic defying. It used to be that you had to find crosswalks or move puzzle pieces or type blurred letters and numbers, but NOW all the sudden I can just click a box and HEY!, I'm human?

That's hardly the Turing Test I'd expected.

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[-] platypode@sh.itjust.works 188 points 2 years ago

It tests whether your mouse movement looks human--we're really bad at things like moving in straight lines, so it's pretty evident from a mouse movement log whether you're a human or a simple bot. It also takes a bunch of auxiliary browser/environment data into account. It's not perfect, but it's complicated enough to defeat to provide fine protection against cheap spam.

[-] random_character_a@lemmy.world 49 points 2 years ago

Shitty situation if you are used to using hotkeys and only use mouse cursor when no other means are available by moving it using numpad.

[-] Thorry84@feddit.nl 44 points 2 years ago

If it's in doubt it just gives you extra challenges. So in the end everybody will get there, or not and then fuck you I guess.

[-] savedbythezsh@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 years ago

Yeah, never thought about this before, but how do blind users deal with captchas?

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 29 points 2 years ago

There are audio captchas.

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[-] Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago

I've learned from these that I must definitely move my mouse like a robot since it always asks me to do more puzzles afterwards. This is even if I try jiggling it around after clicking just to try and convince it.

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 24 points 2 years ago

Could also be browser settings. I often get infinite captcha'd on private Firefox tabs

[-] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 years ago

Yeah this is my experience as well. I don't have much technical knowledge about it, but Firefox with ublock seems to be the enemy of captcha and CloudFlare

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[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 years ago

Interesting that my mouse movement is available to anyone who wants it.

It seems like a small step from that to accessing my keyboard.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 43 points 2 years ago

Your mouse movement and keyboard events are available to webpages that you've loaded, when the browser window is focused.

This isn't nefarious - it allows websites to build nice UIs that most people enjoy using, most of the time.

There's lots of shady stuff going on in browsers, this isn't really one of them.

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[-] MoonManKipper@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

If you’re using a webpage JavaScript can see your mouse cursor and anything you type. But only if the browser has focus. So if you’re typing in another window it can’t

[-] Shadow@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 years ago

Your mouse movement on that page is. Just like if you typed into the page.

It's not tracking you in other windows and apps.

[-] linearchaos@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

They can only access it while you're focused on their webpage. CORS is all about that.

If you click off to another web page and enter information or type of password into a secondary app they can't gather that. As soon as they lose focus they lose the ability to capture your data.

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[-] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 years ago

But it also works with touchscreen taps, and randomizing tap position, duration, and delay is fairly simple.

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[-] elrik@lemmy.world 63 points 2 years ago

Proof of work, which becomes computationally expensive to scale, along with other heuristics based on your browser and page interaction. I believe it's less about clicking the box and what happens after you've clicked the box.

[-] SerotoninSwells@lemmy.world 62 points 2 years ago

This is correct. I work in bot detections. There are baseline checks for various browser automation used as bot frameworks like Puppeteer or Playwright. Then there is basic analysis of server side and client side fingerprints; meaning, do the fingerprints you claim make sense. There are other heuristics too and I imagine Cloudflare is monitoring movements that point to automation. All of this happens after you click. I personally prefer this over Google's captcha which frequently doesn't recognize me as a human but is easily bypassed by bots.

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[-] isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de 59 points 2 years ago

https://blog.cloudflare.com/turnstile-private-captcha-alternative/

TL:DR cloudflare made a new recaptcha which does some complex math and other stuff on your browser, which done once has no noticable effect but if someone were to scrape websites at an absurd speed it slows everything down significantly.

this is not only cool because you don't have to manually solve the captcha, but also because it allows for low-speed scraping to be feasible, with tools like flaresolverr

[-] madcaesar@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago

That's actually kinda cool. Punish the scrapers, but allow regular people to not waste time.

Meanwhile, Google is having you find the zebra crossing for the 400th time....

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 28 points 2 years ago

*training their ai using humans

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[-] trustnoone@lemmy.sdf.org 46 points 2 years ago

Theres a few answrs to this

  1. It uses your movements before this to determine whether it feels like your a bot or not
  2. It makes you wait, the biggest issue with bots is they may try to log in say 50 different passwords for example, so if it takes 5 seconds to do each one it makes boting multiple acounts not worth it.
  3. Google uses catchphas with images to choose. They use this to train their own AI or data to sell
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[-] Ballistic_86@lemmy.world 42 points 2 years ago

These type of “captchas” look at your browsing behavior. It is sort of a “trade secret” of what it looks for, but it might be screen resolution, mouse behavior, cookies, OS, time to click, etc. Anything a website has access to that would look different from a bot.

[-] hswolf@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

Yes, and it gives you (or the bot), a score.

If you don't meet the score, is highly likely that you are a bot.

You can have a superficial an yet interesting read on the topic on the Google re-captch dev docs.

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[-] Xeroxchasechase@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago

Clicking a check box might not be the definite quality that makes you a human, but pondering on the meaning of things and questioning your humanity with a curious introspective state of mind - THAT what makes you a human! I'm proud of you, fellow human!

[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 years ago

Thank you for interacting with me! I am an AI intelligence bot designed by Decepticon Industries. Down with Autobots!

[-] communism@lemmy.ml 32 points 2 years ago

I always fail Cloudflare captchas because I'm clicking it with Vimium-C lol. I hate captchas for making me reach for my mouse. It also seems like a genuine accessibility issue if people who cannot use a mouse can't pass a captcha.

I've found that Google's reCAPTCHA has also started rejecting me no matter what I do. I think it might be because my IP address is a VPN, but that's pretty stupid; if I can pass the test by clicking the squares why not let me in?

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[-] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 29 points 2 years ago

it also sees your mouse movements on your way to that box.

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[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 28 points 2 years ago

I'm sorry, but "now"? This has been a thing for at least half a decade. Are you Encino Man? Did you just wake up?

[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I have not been in a coma but....

I could possibly be the least aware person you've ever had a conversation with, digital or otherwise.

I used to have "weekends" that rotated to different two-day sets every year. One year I got Wednesday and Thursday. I told my wife, "It's not so bad. At least Thanksgiving falls on a Thursday this year. I checked." She looked at me and said, "Thanksgiving is on a Thursday every year." I was over thirty. Had no idea.

She's a very patient woman.

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[-] xylogx@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago

Cloudflare has a bot score. Depending on how sus your bot score is you can use several different levels of verification. The checkbox you refer to is kind of in the middle. There is also a more complicated intrusive captcha and a totally transparent javascript. It’s a pretty slick system.

[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I like that when I'm on tor browser with VPN behind it they're like "Yeah, cool, go on through"

[-] cadekat@pawb.social 15 points 2 years ago

Don't mix tor plus VPN.

If you're using tor browser without tor for some reason, carry on.

[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

So, turn off my VPN that's always running before I use the tor browser?

[-] cadekat@pawb.social 8 points 2 years ago

There are two ways to layer a VPN and tor:

  1. Tor over VPN; or
  2. VPN over Tor.

In the first option, you gain little. Tor already encrypts your traffic, so your ISP can't see inside them. Technically, Tor over a VPN hides the fact that you're using Tor from your ISP, but Tor's snowflake does something similar if you need that.

In the second option, you're revealing your VPN account information, which could theoretically be associated back to you. Tor adds nothing over just a VPN in this case.

[-] wolfpack86@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

So really, "no value in mixing," which is distinct from "don't mix."

The latter implies a security risk could be created.

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[-] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 26 points 2 years ago

Humans have mouse movement that, on August 8, 2024, are very hard to reproduce. But just like regular captchas we are just teaching computers to do the same thing.

[-] GiveOver@feddit.uk 14 points 2 years ago

Whoa what happened on the 9th?

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[-] brianorca@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago

Others mention the mouse motion, and monitoring your other traffic to similar sites. When it shows the checkbox, it has already determined you are probably human. If you had suspicious activity, they will give you more advanced tests instead of just a checkbox.

[-] Magnetic_dud@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 2 years ago

Cloudflare knows almost everything done from your IP address because they're used by the majority of websites. And some websites are using a cloudflare signed TLS certificate so if cloudflare wants, can see the content of the communication instead of an encrypted package

So they know if you have a human behavior (visiting many different websites at human speed and having rests during sleeping time) or if you have a bot behavior (sending millions of requests to the same endpoint at superhuman speeds)

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[-] tilefan@lemm.ee 21 points 2 years ago

I've been told that it's analyzing your behavior from right before you click the button

[-] tills13@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago

The newest models already know whether you're a bot or not before the checkbox loads. A massive majority of the internet goes through Cloudflare so by the time you land on a site you already have what Cloudflare dubs a Bot Score based on your behavior across the web.

Checking the box really just confirms what they already know. There's a second form which I'm sure is even more prevalent than the checkbox that renders nothing, requires no user action, but can prevent form submission if you fail the check.

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[-] NightEagle@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

Clicking the button doesn't proof that you are a human. All the checks happen way before you even click the button (or sometimes even before visiting the website). Google also offers a similar button for their users and since cloudflare is also used on almost any website, they have a lot of data about you. They check your cookies, browser agent, device, settings, your IP address, if you use a VPN or proxy, etc. If you visited other cloudflare websites in the past with the same device or IP, and so on. So they know you and your device way before you even click the button. This is also the reason why you sometimes see a robot arm (made of Lego) clicking the button, and is still recognized as human. But as soon as you use a different IP address or a VPN (or even use a shared IP address, like in your company's network) you have to solve CAPTCHAs. Of course they also check mouse movement, but this is only one part of many checks.

[-] Mambert@beehaw.org 15 points 2 years ago

Basically bots would automatically click on it, teleporting the cursor to the very center of the button. They will do this within exact milliseconds of the page loading.

Humans read something on the site, then find the banner, and move the cursor over to it, confirm that the cursor is somewhere on the button, and then click it.

It's not just the button, it's the before the button that determines you're a bot or not.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

Beats me. I have a script that clicks all those boxes for me.

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[-] davel@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

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this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2024
377 points (100.0% liked)

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