Every Trad Wife Influencer is Completely Insane : usauthoritarianism

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 222 points 2 months ago

There’s not a thing wrong with wanting a traditional family and traditional gender role life. A lot of people want that and life doesn’t have to be super complicated to be rewarding.

When you start spending all your time on the internet making monetized content about it and deliberately choosing to engage with the absolute worst people on the internet is where it becomes a suspect thing where the behavior doesn’t match the stated goal

[-] Zink@programming.dev 37 points 2 months ago

It really annoys me how creepy misogynist awful people think they get to represent the traditional family.

I have a super traditional looking family. Stay at home mom and everything. But it is sick and disgusting to act like having a setup you enjoy means it’s the only valid one. You see, we care more about raising a decent and happy person than indoctrinating them into some belief system that focuses on who our enemies are.

Rejecting loving families because they look different than traditional does not make you the representatives of traditional, fucknuts.

[-] MindTraveller@lemmy.ca 34 points 2 months ago

There is something wrong with a traditional gender role life. Traditional gender roles are misogynist. Now, sure, a grown woman can consent to a BSDM lifestyle with her husband, that's fine. But you do not involve your kids in that shit.

Traditional gender roles are bondage. They are. And if you have a relationship that practices BDSM as a lifestyle, you need to follow modern consent practices. Conservatives want to talk about kink at pride? Grooming children? That's what this is. This is grooming. This is exposing children to your fetish and telling them it's the lord's plan for them.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 67 points 2 months ago

There is something wrong with a traditional gender role life.

No there isn’t.

If a queer person is empowered to tell a conservative that “listen I’m gonna need you to STFU about my lifestyle choices, there’s not a thing wrong with them if that’s what I have decided to do” - which is 100% fair - then any person who feels that traditional gender roles suit them fine needs to be empowered to make the same STFU statement to anyone who’s somehow decided that they get to make the same determination on behalf of someone who just wants a family and kids and a farm somewhere, because they’ve decided that’s what will make them happy.

Misogyny is misogyny. “Normal” gender roles are different. Maybe the issue is a difference of definitions; there’s a certain amount of spousal abuse and authoritarianism that got written down as “traditional” by the ones that like to practice it. If that’s what you’re talking about or what you thought I meant by “traditional,” I will be fully in agreement with you that it’s fucked. What I am talking about is something different though.

[-] MindTraveller@lemmy.ca 21 points 2 months ago

Traditional gender roles are abusive 100% of the time. Now, if your transfemme polycule wants to play out a Stepford Wives kink fantasy (I am citing my own ex's fetish), then that's fine. That can be consensual. But if you're talking about actual tradition, the actual relationships of the past, that shit is abusive no matter what.

We are talking about a system where you can't divorce your husband if he beats you. Spousal rape isn't real rape. Abortion is illegal. No painkillers during birth. No birth control. Women being sold off to other families. Treated as possessions. You can't have a system of slavery and say that isn't abusive. There are no good slaveowners. And there are no good traditional husbands. Many men of 100 years ago were good people who meant well and did their best to do well. But the system they lived in was innately abusive. For all the kindness and decency they gave their wives, they could not give their wives the freedom to choose another life. And that lack of freedom is abuse. Often not the husband's fault, because he lived in a society where he was expected to behave that way.

But today, we have moved beyond those norms. So if a husband wants to go back to that old system and own his wife, then it is his fault. He is an abuser, no matter how kind or gentle. There is a way to make the appearance of a traditional relationship work as a kink. A way to ensure enthusiastic consent. There's roleplay to be done. But it won't actually be a traditional marriage. The people advocating actual traditional marriages, they want the abuse.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 51 points 2 months ago

100% of the time, huh

Just an unbroken line of black eyes and unwanted pregnancies going back to the beginning of time, huh

Dude. If you want conservatives to steer clear from making wild accusations about what goes on in queer communities and why their whole lifestyle is unhealthy and awful 100% of the time, so they don’t need any further evidence other than just participating in the lifestyle to accuse everyone of taking part in some kind of horror even if they are just innocent people trying to live their life without being shamed for it, you need to extend the same courtesy.

I feel like we’re going in circles. That’s my take on it though.

[-] LadyAutumn 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You're misunderstanding what exactly they were referring to, the modern trad wife movement, which is literally about giving up your rights to a man. You literally said in your next comment that you didn't even read what they said. Why are you acting like you know what you're talking about if you didn't even read it?

I also really think you need to check yourself on the "it's your fault conservatives make wild accusations about queer people" bit there. Just really not okay to try and lay blame at their feet for that. Like do you have any idea how exploitative that is? "You're contributing to the transphobic hate movement unless you change your opinion" is basically what you're saying. Which is a really fucked up thing to say to a trans person. Our oppression is NOT our fault.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 8 points 2 months ago

You're misunderstanding what exactly they were referring to, the modern trad wife movement

Yeah this is a fair point - way back up in my original comment I covered a couple different ways in which the internet “tradwife” thing is fucked, but I didn’t also say that it is explicitly approving of some of the most toxic and misogynistic parts of “conservative” society whether modern or old-school. The whole thing is a core of authoritarianism wrapped in a thin veneer of “traditional gender roles”. I can see I kind of left the door open for misinterpretation because I spoke up about the second without really distinguishing it from the first, when conflating the two is the whole “tradwife influencer” shtick and that’s relevant here. It is fair.

I also really think you need to check yourself on the "it's your fault conservatives make wild accusations about queer people" bit there.

Also not what I meant, although I could see how it could have sounded that way.

What I meant is, if someone’s applying a whole toxic stereotype to 100% of people who pursue a lifestyle they don’t vibe with, that’s wrong, regardless of who’s on which side of it. Not that prejudice against traditional gender roles has any kind of causal relationship with prejudice against non traditional gender roles.

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[-] ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee 32 points 2 months ago

You’re just as much an anti choice bigot as the conservatives pushing trad life on people. If a woman makes a choice to stay at home to raise children, that’s valid and not “bondage”.

[-] MindTraveller@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago

I didn't say bondage was invalid. I said bondage without proper safety measures is invalid.

The woman was left to give birth alone. She had to self administer an epidural in secret. This shit ain't vanilla!

[-] ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That shit is far and above what normal people mean when they say “traditional gender roles”. Lots of stay at home moms don’t live in abusive relationships, and equating the two is dishonest. My mom and my grandmother both stayed home with kids because it made sense to them, and both their partners showed them nothing but respect and love.

[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

That shit ain't consensual at that point

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[-] LowtierComputer@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago

I don't think traditional gender roles and BDSM should really be compared like that. But yes, patriarchal family life and domination are often the centerpieces.

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[-] JayleneSlide@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

I was a tiny bit on board with your point, except for the part where you argue against self-determination and self-actualization. Moreover, I followed this thread, and you're not only arguing in bad faith, you are moving the goalposts. Be better.

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[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 months ago

Hey, are you accusing me of being a bad person because I run a Mormon parenting vlog while my kids are malnourished and escaping and running for help?!

I'm not Ruby Franke or Jodi Hildebrandt. I don't know why you'd think that. Stop asking.

[-] ____@infosec.pub 10 points 2 months ago

This - while I'd argue that feeding raw milk to children, for instance, is probably in violation of local statutes in most of the US, the overall premise isn't necessarily invalid - the idea of forcing it on others and packaging/selling it as an influencer is what's flawed.

My wife and I have a carefully negotiated relationship that is nowhere near tradwife, but not necessarily contemporary traditional either. I ended up in the hospital recently, and all that went out the window - she spoke for me, signed various forms of consent on my behalf, and the like as/when necessary.

The "tradwife" package seems to ignore that such moments will be necessary in any life, especially one with kids involved, and certainly any life that involves the risks of e.g., farm work. People get hurt and need consent for treatment, folks get sick and need to handle business over the phone but are unable to speak on their own behalf because they're sick, etc.

From where I sit, anything resembling what the tradwife influencers are selling is completely invalid/impractical without an 'escape hatch' allowing the (generally) submissive spouse to take the reins as an when necessary and of their own volition... along with ensuring that said spouse has a functional understanding of how and when to do so, per the laws of their particular state.

Without that, you're just playing a damned risky game that has a realistic chance of causing serious injury to one or more involved parties in the medium term.

[-] lars@lemmy.sdf.org 122 points 2 months ago

If tradlife were so awesome there wouldn’t be so many painfully aggressive instasmiles in the pics.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 87 points 2 months ago

Every time I read about these people I can't help but think 'this sounds like a fetish.'

[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 31 points 2 months ago

Idk if it were a fetish, I'd be seriously into it... Sort of. Denying your wife an epidural? You are no longer in a dom/sub relationship because you just broke consent. You force your wife to become pregnant before she's ready? That's rape. Dictating that she does all the chores, child rearing, dinner, family shit while you just make money? That's lazy and greedy.

Like all these types are living in the country, super model attractive, clearly pandering to conservatives. Like shit, the idea of having 6 kids? I think that's fun, especially if they are spaced just a bit apart, and plenty of living space. Sure, you get to spend less time with each kid individually, but then you get to watch each one turn into their own person, and hopefully you've given them enough energy that they will live a good life later.

It's a fantasy pandering to conservatives that it can be "real." Since they are influencers? It's automatically not real.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 29 points 2 months ago

Unfortunately not every relationship is safe, sane, and consensual. 😞

[-] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Well, numbers are power, and if you are not a fan of power, then kids are treasure and happiness and joy.

But! People working their ass out to grow 6 kids (I'm not even talking about money, just about watching them not to kill themselves) won't look like this. It won't be easy. It won't be glossy.

And, of course, in a normal traditional family the husband would be just as overloaded. Weekends, bitch? Nah, go fix every shit that broke, especially things that your wife needs to do her part.

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[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

It is, free use is a thing this is just free use with bullshit rules made a couple thousand years ago by a cult of incel dudes.

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[-] Ulvain@sh.itjust.works 69 points 2 months ago

Which of the kids is the wife?

[-] Im_old@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

Yes

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 60 points 2 months ago

What was the thing that was shared a couple days ago?

Nature wants 5/7 of your kids to make it and for you to die at 50 or something...

So people who want to live a traditional life are ok with that or they still want the benefits of society while not participating in it?

[-] Dasus@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

Nature wants 5/7 of your kids to make it and for you to die at 50 or something...

Lol that's low-key overly optimistic

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[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

Nature doesn’t want anything. It’s not a person. It’s not even a thing. It’s just an idea.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 17 points 2 months ago

You dropped that

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 12 points 2 months ago

In typical USA society, precarious access to healthcare due to exorbitant prices certainly helps keep the average population age down.

[-] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Only for the poors. While the rich grow ever older and more dirty.

[-] BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world 59 points 2 months ago

Being forced to drink raw milk all day is part of an ancient execution method designed to kill you with your own diarrhea soaking you until you rot alive.

[-] weremacaque@midwest.social 34 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Unfortunately, this is true but they'll also mix it with honey and pour it on you as well. Bugs and rats will then start to eat you alive along with the bacteria. It's called Scaphism.

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[-] Aganim@lemmy.world 56 points 2 months ago

Having kids and drinking milk all day sounds like my idea of hell, actually. I'm terrible with kids and my lactose intolerant bowels are protesting in advance..

[-] Tenthrow@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago

This feels like one of those stories that ends with a mini series on Netflix.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

A show on TLC, then an episode on Behind the Bastards.

[-] JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 months ago

Quiverfull episode when Robert!?

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[-] ValiantDust@feddit.org 24 points 2 months ago

I count seven children. Has she lost track?

[-] urheber@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 2 months ago

the seventh one is from her husbands girlfriend probably.

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[-] Taako_Tuesday@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 months ago

No, she just didn't want the last one

[-] Monstrosity@lemm.ee 16 points 2 months ago

All I can see is that table outside covered with food and think about the HOURS of work that went into that. No thanks!

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[-] bazus1@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

kitchen table chairs outdoors in the grass is a recipe for a broken chair and a crying kid.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

Maybe don't buy cheap chairs? Humans have had tables and chairs outside for as long as tables and chairs have existed.

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[-] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 months ago

the nuclear family and cisheteronormativity have been an absolute disaster for the human race

[-] SoleInvictus 15 points 2 months ago

It's amazing how many of these "trad" people are completely clueless that an isolated nuclear farming family isn't traditional in the slightest.

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