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submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by spujb@lemmy.cafe to c/196

seen this post elsewhere? click for explanationThis post got banned from !memes@lemmy.world for reason “Troll Posting” which is Very Disrespectful in my opinion. 😕

I mean this meme with full respect and love to my fellow community members and I was proud of the discussion and support it was creating.

EDIT: POST RESTORED YAY. (Thank you to the mods it turned out to be a misunderstanding.)

Important clarification/FAQI am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!

I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)

Very good comments that express key points:

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[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 114 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's not on women to soften their complaints of rape and harassment to try to prevent men from becoming incels and Nazis.

For Fucks Sake

Men can deal with the very mild discomfort of being occasionally reminded women have to always be vigilant.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 52 points 6 months ago

absolutely agree ❤️

which is why i am very thankful for those who put in patience and effort into encouraging young men to see their shortcomings ~ outside the context of women voicing their experiences ~ in order to achieve a more equitable future for all

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[-] Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 months ago

Stopping the progressive downfall of society is on all of society, period. What's the end game of alienating half the race?

You're right about one thing. Women can't make men not rape, and it doesn't really fall to them. Does it fall to the good guys, though? The ones who already don't rape and stand up to their peers who have toxic ideas? And, really, are you reaching anyone who needs to hear it with rhetoric like this?

Changing society is a game everyone has to be on board with. Everyone makes up society, so you can't just tell half of them they're not fit and expect it just to work out. Sure, not all men, but quite frankly I'm tired of having to be "one of the good ones". We already decided labeling someone one of the good ones wasn't right with black people, we really need to have that fight again?

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[-] Kalkaline@leminal.space 54 points 6 months ago

Dudes need to sack up and realize there's a lot of dudes out there that are creepy. It's up to you as a stand up dude to call these creepy dudes out when they act up. Women don't owe you anything, you stand up for them because it's the right thing to do, and not because you want sex.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 43 points 6 months ago

Being a model and force of positive masculinity is chad, sigma-pilled, and hot as hell. 🙂‍↕️🥵🐺💪

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

Absolutely. Unfortunately, I think the biggest impact of decent men standing up for fair treatment for women will simply be to make the cretins run back under their rocks - certainly good, but not enough. It'll take generational change, changing the way boys are raised, the kind that's been slowly happening with each successive wave of feminism, to truly solve this problem.

I was lucky enough to have a mother who was, despite being otherwise fairly conservative, unyieldingly feminist (in practice and speech, if not in labeling). I was raised with the knowledge that women, fundamentally, are people (gasp), for better and worse, and that society unfairly discriminates against women and harasses them for no other reason than the petty cruelty of a few who benefit and the many who are easily misled or hope to benefit.

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[-] SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 45 points 6 months ago

Know what tipped me off that Lemmy really doesn't get nuance?

There was an article about a ride-share / taxi company that cateted to women and provided drivers who were also women, to make them feel safer getting a ride.

The comments were absolutely venomous, calling it out as "sexism" and how "what's to stop me from identifying as a woman and calling? They can't refuse me!" which.... fuckin' oof.

But I figured out why they're upset: because they want people to be treated equally instead of acknowledging that some people have different needs that may require extra services to level the playing field.

Equality vs. Equity.

[-] franklin@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Wait Cabracadabra is real!?

I agree with your comment though, taking special care for vulnerable populations is important and when in a privileged position can (incorrectly) feel like exclusion.

I think young men who are at a particular vulnerable and formative age seek community and to make their impression on the world.

That feeling has been weaponized by alt-right influencers to start a culture war in order to stifle class conflict.

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[-] Kedly@lemm.ee 45 points 6 months ago

The fact that is post got removed for trolling is exactly why my feelings towards the bear meme have evolved from annoyed to "Reminded of the multiple times women have attempted to use cops as a weapon against me"

[-] TheFriar@lemm.ee 23 points 6 months ago

This has happened to you multiple times? In what type of situation does this happen to you?

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[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 13 points 6 months ago

Holy shit I am so sorry this happened to you!?! That is not cool.

ACAB and also abusive women can kick rocks

[-] franklin@lemmy.world 40 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Everyone has a right to be heard.

Everyone has a right to their pain.

Someone else's pain being acknowledged and addressed does not invalidate yours.

Comparing pain leads only to a race to the bottom when we should all be lifting each other up.

[-] HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

Acknowledging someone's pain also makes it easier to understand their motives, find common ground, and love forward together

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 10 points 6 months ago

love forward

wait i love this actually i don’t know if it was a typo or not and honestly i don’t care this is such a beautiful phrase

[-] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 33 points 6 months ago

I agree. That doesn't mean women should step back to please men, rather that we all as a society need to take the problem of disenfranchised men as the serious issue and long term threat to stable society that it is. This doesn't mean that we need to fight them, just communicate to them in a better way.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 8 points 6 months ago
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[-] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 33 points 6 months ago

The Virgin Exclusive vs. The Chad Dialectic

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 22 points 6 months ago

looks up what those words mean

so true

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

EDIT: Post has restored and it turned out to be a misunderstanding! Thank you to the mod team for being really chill about this. :)

You guys have no clue how sad I am that the mods did this. I reached out for an explanation, but nothing so far, and all that positive discussion and holding each other accountable is just wiped out, meanwhile all of the other posts full of straight up misogynistic hate and flaming is still up. Guess this is what I get for trying to be a good actor online.

[-] henfredemars@infosec.pub 17 points 6 months ago

Take heart. Should the reason be less than stellar, the fediverse protects you by offering numerous venues to share your thoughts.

Fundamentally, you only require an audience who wishes to hear. You were able to come to this place and share anyway. No one can dominate the discussion. It’s a beautiful thing.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Honestly serves me right for trusting any .world community without JonsJava as a mod. 😝 JonsJava and the Blahaj mods are what make this platform bearable.

Edit: The mods reached out and were actually very kind about the misunderstanding. No hard feelings!

[-] match@pawb.social 27 points 6 months ago

I'm not sure youth disenfranchisement is caused by bad rhetoric considering the other causes like wealth inequality and generally poor life fulfillment

[-] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 24 points 6 months ago

No, not caused by, it just feeds the confirmation bias of people who are already on that mental path.

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[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 21 points 6 months ago

I saw your post and don't think it should have been removed, let alone banned, but I don't think you did yourself any favours in the comments. You kept asserting it as fact that there is a huge problem with silencing SA survivors, and when asked to give evidence, the only thing you had was three comments in the same thread, where the one sexist guy was being downvoted and the multiple people correcting him were upvoted. Not good evidence of a systemic problem.

(Ironically, you now do have that evidence, in the form of your ban.)

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Literally no. Entirely different post you are referencing, one that is still up in fact.

Many of the votes reversed after I made this post due to brigading. Careful, you are spreading a bit of misinformation here, dude. :)

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[-] bolexforsoup 21 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
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[-] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 13 points 6 months ago

How does the man/bear discussion disenfranchise and antagonize young men?

On top of not being a creeper, you also need to bathe regularly to get a chance at a date.

Does the fact that you have to bathe regularly antagonize and disenfranchise young men?

I would argue the man/bear thought experiment gives young men a useful look inside the average womans life that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

[-] boo_ 26 points 6 months ago

I don't read this as the discussion disenfranchising young men, rather just stating that the broader disenfranchisement of the working class has its effect of making many men vulnerable to far right rhetoric of a day where many white cis-het men did not have to try, like at all (at least, that's the rhetoric).

I read this as saying that we need to counter these societal issues on multiple fronts; not pandering to right-wing men, while also not letting the far right rhetoric take hold of younger men. Offering a good alternative which actually helps them (leftism) instead.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 11 points 6 months ago

Exactly this. ^^^ Excellent expression of my position, thanks homie :)

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[-] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 11 points 6 months ago

This post got banned from !memes@lemmy.world for reason “Troll Posting” which is Very Disrespectful in my opinion. 😕

I find it really disrespectful as well since it was one of the most productive and well tempered OPs on this whole drama arc, at least on Lemmy.

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this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
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