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[-] yuri@pawb.social 164 points 6 months ago

The bear is honest, either it eats you or it fucks off. The bear would never pretend to be friendly to gain your trust, or pretend to fuck off and instead stalk you for days. I can more accurately surmise a bears intentions than i can for any random man because all the bear could possibly want out of me is a meager amount of food.

Men getting angry about this are being upset by the possibility that they could potentially be considered threatening, by a completely uninformed third party nonetheless. And their chosen recourse is to demonstrate threatening behavior.

Some men are real snowflakes tbh

[-] SoleInvictus 104 points 6 months ago

I'm a man and I endorse this message.

One thing about being a man is other men drop their guards around you and say the things they believe about their roles regarding women and masculinity. In my experience, most men are fine. Many are confused about who they are and their place in the world but do their best to be good people. Other men are just rotten, selfish, and/or broken people for many reasons. They're often victims of abuse who perpetuate that abuse.

Some, though, are also confused and do their best, but what their best looks like is informed by people like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson. They believe women are somehow subhuman and that treating them as such is natural, right, and good. They believe in a social hierarchy and that might makes right. These are the men to worry about. The bad men I mentioned before generally know they're bad or are broken enough that one can notice. These guys, though, appear normal but will absolutely fuck you over to get what they believe they deserve, all the while patting themselves on the back for being such an upstanding person who is "just enforcing the natural order".

That's why I'd also choose the bear.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 32 points 6 months ago

Ugh. I hate it when some misogynistic asshole assumes I agree with his views on women because I have the same downstairs anatomy as he does. Fuck you and stop "🙄 women..." around me. You'd be the first one to whine about a woman doing the same thing about men.

[-] Shou@lemmy.world 26 points 6 months ago

Animals fear men for a reason. Men's BO triggers an acute fear response in rabbits, guinea pigs, rats, mice and hamsters. This experiment did require the animal to be sacrificed, hence why it only involves common laboratory animals.

Anyway. They noticed men would underestimate the suffering of a laboratory animal. They already knew that prey animals hide their pain when they are scared. This is to make them less of an easy target for birds of prey to hunt. Because a limping rabbit, is a much easier meal.

The reason why there was a difference in welfare scoring done by men and women, was because this fear response got triggered. They did an experiment where they had shirts be worn by a man, woman or both for 24 hours. Found that the animals didn't care for smells of women, but feared BO from men. It wasn't a skill issue, or lack of empathy.

We also find in wolves who are used to humans, that they are more hostile towards strange men than they are towards strange women.

Testosterone is not a friendly hormone. It leads to being easily agitatated in all mammals. The only reason higher levels of androgens in humans, correlates with decreased aggressive behaviour is because when we produce more androgens, we produce more estrogens. Which in turn fascilitate communication between two regions in the brain that determine emotional impulses and whether or not the person acts on it. Hence why men are less aware of their emotions (it's not just societal influence), more impulsive and more easily agitated/aggressive than women.

With bears you know what you can expect. And there are even things that can be done to save yourself. But with men? You never really know their intentions. It's why women's intuition exists at the level it does.

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[-] gmtom@lemmy.world 116 points 6 months ago

This is terrible logic to go by.

If you generalise half the population and insult them then of course people are going to be mad at you.

This is like some boomer saying "All feminists are easily offended lesbians that just like to shout out people"

Then smugly being like "haha you proved my point" when a femininst rightly takes issue with that statement.

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 41 points 6 months ago

This is also an indicator of the world’s best insult as per the comic Basic Instructions:

“I find you argumentative and easily offended.”

Basically no one is allowed to respond to it.

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[-] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 6 months ago

This is like some boomer saying "All feminists are easily offended lesbians that just like to shout out people"

Then smugly being like "haha you proved my point" when a femininst rightly takes issue with that statement.

Worse than that even, as feminists are less than half the population and an ideology you choose to belong to, rather than a demographic you are born into.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 22 points 6 months ago

If you generalise half the population and insult them then of course people are going to be mad at you.

As a random man I don't feel insulted by this at all. I would also rather be in the woods with a random bear than a random man. The bear is more predictable in preferring to have nothing to do with me.

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[-] Microw@lemm.ee 22 points 6 months ago

I havent read the article, but from the heading and the teaser of it it seems to be a personal opinion piece of what she would prefer and asking other women about it.

Where exactly does she actively insult all men?

[-] UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 29 points 6 months ago

Where exactly does she actively insult all men?

The part about saying she would prefer being alone in the woods with an animal that would maul and eat her alive than being with [insert trait you were born with].

If you don't think it's insulting, switch out the word "men" with gay/jew/trans or any other group of people and ask if those people would feel insulted.

It's a statement that very likely would be removed by moderators and gotten you banned on certain instances on Lemmy if you did. I honestly don't believe you're asking that question in good faith.

[-] Infernalism@lemmy.world 26 points 6 months ago

I can't say that I blame her and I'm a guy. Besides, you know she's just being over the top to make a point. Take five seconds, look at what she's really saying and stop looking for reasons to be angry at her.

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[-] gmtom@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago

Okay, let's reframe this to be about a different specific group.

Let's say this woman wrote this exact same opinion piece, but instead of it being about men in general, it was about black men specifically.

And she is just saying that she would rather take her chances with a wild animal than be alone with a black man. Is that perfectly okay and not insulting/demanding to black men in your eyes?

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[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 61 points 6 months ago

The people complaining that she is being derogatory to men are the same people who would say "what do you expect going into the woods alone with a strange man? What did you think would happen?"

[-] HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 57 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Imagine the stupid Pence Rule (never be alone with a woman who isn't your wife). And framing it as you'd rather be alone with a velociraptor than a strange woman because a velociraptor is less likely to falsely accuse you of something.

I get that the point of the joke is that women think men are dangerous, but any nuance or discussion is completely out the window due to how stupid and inflammatory the framing is

[-] HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 30 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I would also like to add, actually educating people about average bear behaviour would help.

Most bears will flee if given a choice, and are very unlikely to attack. Globally, there's only around 40 bear attacks a year, and less than 5% are deadly. A lot of how they react is driven by how the encounter starts, if you're within 60m before it notices you, you're significantly more likely to be attacked.

Meaning that seeing a bear from a distance off is basically always just going to be neat and maybe a nice photo.

They are huge dangerous creatures, but so are people, and they'd rather not take the risk.

Knowing that makes the argument a bit more reasonable than just pointing out how bad/unpredictable men are

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 56 points 6 months ago

Posts bait. Catches idiots. Stays relevant.

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 54 points 6 months ago

I’d generally pick a bear too, most of the time you could just walk away. A human might try to talk to me or something.

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[-] Kyoyeou@slrpnk.net 48 points 6 months ago

Maybe it's because i'm a man, but this trend saddens me. I don't often see what the other gender thinks of us, but the fact that a big part of us are a bother that all off us should be seen as more dangerous than a bear. Damn...

[-] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 41 points 6 months ago

It's because casual misandry is socially acceptable.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 40 points 6 months ago

Not entirely. It's also because men have historically been bad about telling creepy and misogynistic men to back off and shut the fuck up.

I would sooner see men step up and call out the bad actors -- and I say that as a man who's done so. Don't teach your daughters that they need to be wary about what they wear, teach your sons to respect and not rape women.

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[-] VerdantSporeSeasoning@lemmy.ca 22 points 6 months ago

Men in real life (in my experience) are mostly lovely folks. Men in places like Lemmy and Reddit can be pretty decent too, depending on the thread. But honestly, at what point has it been 'safe' to self identify as a woman on the wider Internet? Like to have a female voice in a game chat? Or in a random chat room? Between a lot of online harassment (which only needs a small slice of men participating in to be felt much more broadly) and the political and cultural attempts to strip women of power, I get this kind of outlook happening. It just really fucking sucks.

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[-] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 42 points 6 months ago

What species of bear? Because that makes a lot of difference.

[-] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 25 points 6 months ago

Somewhere between gummy and grizzly

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[-] Shadowq8@lemmy.world 40 points 6 months ago

Ah just what we need, more gender warfare, rather than focusing on the 1% who increase inflation and make wars, and steal your paychecks.

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[-] ettyblatant@lemmy.world 40 points 6 months ago

Thank you to the men in the comments who react like humans with empathy!

But god damn there are a lot of people on this thread that are taking this VERY personally.

  1. Nobody is denying that men in our society deserve to be respected, nobody is saying IF YOU'RE A MAN FUCK YOU ID RATHER BE MAULED, and nobody is saying that women are always right no matter what.

  2. Of course the man could be weaker/not a threat. Of course he should be assumed safe. Of course everyone should respect all genders. And, OF COURSE, some women lie about rape! Yes! You do in fact have valid concerns!

HOWEVER, It is really shitty some people commenting decide to take a clear example with obvious intentions and then make it about themselves, and then abuse women in the comments... you are proving the point, and in fact, you are a huge red flag already.

This question already sets the scene, you are alone in the woods: there is a strange man OR you are alone in the woods: there is a strange bear. The man's intentions (AND the bear's intentions) is not clear, we only know that he is there, and he is strange. No need to make up reasons why the guy is OK, minding his business, etc. Because in the situation given, the point of the question was to ask people how they would feel lost in the woods with a man or a bear, with such a small amount of information!

The question is trying to shed light on WHY the women asked said they prefer the bear. Do they think every man -at all- is a threat? Do they think that all men will overpower and harm them"because all men want to use their strength to rape/hurt women" because they are "biologically meant to*?* and, then, where do the fears come from and what can we do to change that? Why assume the worst when everything could be just fine?

I wish people would react more like "this is very depressing, and I understand why women are sometimes afraid of men in situations out of their control" or "I am doing my part to be a safe man ". But ask yourself, "do I know someone that would clearly make a woman feel unsafe to be around?" You might know more than one person like this, and they are why we talk about this in the first place.

The best way I've ever heard to describe this fear women live with is this: "when I approach a bees nest, it is highly unlikely they will attack me, they are usually docile!. That does not mean I won't try to avoid being stung. "

[-] GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world 40 points 6 months ago

Just once I would like to open one of these threads and not see a bunch of lemmites embarrassing themselves by deliberately misinterpreting something.

[-] NickwithaC@lemmy.world 24 points 6 months ago

Yeah, I was kinda hoping for better when I posted. Seems like many of the sons who need this talk are on here.

[-] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago

Its disparaging to an entire gender. I would argue lots of people need many talks. Lots of evil out there and many of it goes unnoticed or is accepted due to current cultural climate. Including passive aggressive disparaging questions meant to vilify men.

[-] Leg@lemmy.world 32 points 6 months ago

I'd say we're right to be disparaged against, up until we get our collective act together as men. Women should be wary of us for the simple fact that it aids in their survival. A comment like hers is at the very bottom of my list of things to change.

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[-] Starkstruck@lemmy.world 37 points 6 months ago

If you don't fuck with the bear, the bear probably won't fuck with you. Just steer clear of it you'll be fine.

Humans on the other hand, could do anything.

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[-] bricklove@midwest.social 31 points 6 months ago

I'm a strange man and I'd rather be with the bear too

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[-] Alto@kbin.social 30 points 6 months ago

I mean, do I know if the bear is hungry? What type of bear? I'd take a well fed black bear over a random person, they ain't gonna fuck with you. Pretty much any other scenario and I ain't messing with the bear.

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[-] Amaltheamannen@lemmy.ml 30 points 6 months ago

If I mer another man in the woods I would say hi and walk by. Bears are fucking dangerous. I really dont understand why all of you are so afraid of other people.

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[-] VonCesaw@lemmy.world 28 points 6 months ago

imo for pedants like myself, it needs to be made clear if the bear is LIKELY to harm you

If its a black bear, red panda, or the like that is not even fair, EVERYONE would rather be with a bear that doesnt want to be near you rather than some potentially dangerous rando

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[-] djsoren19@yiffit.net 27 points 6 months ago

I am a pretty tall, broadly built man, so obv I'm a little biased because I'm reasonably confident that I could kill another man if it came to it. However, the concept of this question bothers me, because it doesn't indicate what kind of bear. Trust me, if you ever come face to face with a fully grown grizzly, you'd prefer the man. Monsters are real, and they can destroy you on accident, while men have weak necks and unprotected kidneys.

If I was dead either way though, obv I'd rather it be an emotionless grizzly who'd tear me apart pretty quickly.

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[-] Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago

Do not let the 1% divide the sexes.

Solidarity amongst all human beings, and whatever gender they may be.

That said, people who are a smaller stature deserve the ability to defend themselves from other larger individuals. I wonder how the handmaids tale would have gone if all the women had AK-47s?

SocialistRA.org

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[-] Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee 26 points 6 months ago

I have received messages from angry men

Does she actually say how many? Two is "men"

Just curious how few she's basing her opinion of all men on.

I think the word is "misandry", no?

[-] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

Two men is two more than the bears that wrote in, so it's a gamble that bears are less likely to cause her harm.

Anyhow, she doesn't generalize it to all men, so my brother why are you picking up a hat that doesn't suit you? That's sort of her goal, she's being inflammatory so that the angry responses can prove her right.

If she wants to go poke at bears in a forest, then god speed and I hope she takes a rifle. I'll stay home chilling and watching netflix.

[-] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 21 points 6 months ago

She is 100% generalizing all men my guy

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[-] aarRJaay@lemmy.world 24 points 6 months ago

I just want to know how many bears she knows on a a personal level to make it possible for there to be a "strange bear".

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[-] Crass_Spektakel@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago

I read her post some days ago and thought "she got some kinky humor".

Now I think "She has no humor at all and was dead serious".

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[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago

Funny, because if I was trapped alone in a forest and had to chose between spending time with someone who posts shit like this and a bear in both cases Id probably run away screaming.

[-] Zacryon@lemmy.wtf 22 points 6 months ago

Great idea! That way you are making it easy for the bear to find you, distracting from the other person and thereby helping them to get out. As a bonus, we will have one less human like you on the planet.

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[-] Got_Bent@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago

Pretty much all points from all parties in this thread just reinforce my ever growing refusal to leave the house or interact with anybody unless absolutely necessary.

Eventually, I'll probably be the strange man in the woods because that's as far away from people as I can get. Should we meet at that time, then by all means, I encourage you, regardless of gender, to move along and go get you some bear love.

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[-] braxy29@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago

disclaimer - i haven't read the article/opinion. anyway, if someone said this to me, i think i would understand what is really being communicated, which is something like "i don't trust men i don't know, men i don't know feel very unsafe to me." i don't think i would get hung up taking the statement literally. my thinking would be something like, "why do men seem so unsafe to you?" (knowing the answer is likely based in experience or observation of some kind), rather than "what kind of bear?"

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

As a man, I'd never be stuck in a forest with Kate.

Forests are scary. Can't we go to a zoo?

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this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2024
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