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this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2024
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Am from Italy, italians are the whitest of the whites. Rome, the church, the basis of modern Patriarchy and white supremacy was born and raised here folks
I'm from Italy as well. I always like to remember a quote from Charles Mingus, who at some point in his career had an entire black band with the exception of his sax player, Charlie Mariano. When asked about it, he answered something along of the lines of "He's not white, he's Italian."
Maybe the social meaning of ethnicity is really relative to the racist empires they're situated in and not on some sort of inherent value
yea, its because the Italians (and Irish, Chinese, etc as well) generally came to America later and were poorer than the British/French/Germans etc were, so they were often discriminated against (plus the mafia thing, but that also generally comes from being poorer)
That's great and all, but it means nothing to race theorists.
Holy Roman Empire of German Nation was a thing once...
I don't know what you define as that demographic, but what I said is just the truth. The culture in Italy is very mixed and different between regions, but racism, both cultural and structural, is rampant, even between Italians of the north and south
So pagans weren’t white?
The Norse?
What a weird definition you use
What I meant is simply that the roman empire and the Catholic church forged ideological colonial basis of today, not that racism didn't exist before
Also I meant Patriarchy as an overarching colonial institution, not as an isolated cultural concept. The world wasn't always universally like this, there are many examples of non (or less) patriarchal societies throughout history, and we don't know enough about prehistory to make any definitive judgement on humanity
True but that doesn’t fit with your argument as a precondition to being white
Whiteness as we know it was mad there
Where in the world does that come from?
Norse are the Scandinavians
I would say Northern Germanic but it might cause confusion with the country
I meant the accusation that white supremacy was "born" in the nordics.
Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant?
That’s where pale white people come from, they killed dark white people across Europe as they spread
I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just saying completely baseless stuff.
Viking raiders didn't care about the colour of your skin, not to mention the English are visually just as light in tone. Saying it's the root of white supremacy is baseless.
British.
Edit; Im curious as to why this is getting downvoted.
The Normans replaced the Britons who were darker
The Welsh are the only dark people left on the Isles and even they aren’t homogeneous in that anymore
I can't even tell if you're talking about Brittany or England. The Normans pushed out the Celtic bretons in Brittany but that has nothing to do with the isles where the West Germanic angles and Saxons pushed out the native Celtics. There the Normans just came up to rule.
England
Britain is because Rome called the people that lived there Britons
Predating Brittany
Then the Normans did not replace anybody in England other than rulers. The angles already did that, thus "angle land." The Normans pushed out the bretons in Brittany, or northern France.
You’re right, it was the Angles
And the one thing to keep in mind with those tribes is many of them were actually mixed with lineages from the celts themselves because the britons were actively migrating down to armorica and the Iberian peninsula https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armorica
I think they were equal opportunity killers.
i disagree
I wonder if this is partially a north/south italy divide thing (I don't know all that much about Italy but I have heard the north was generally more privileged)
I don't know about the north, but the places my family are from are not 5 star cities, especially my dads mom. her town is super small and is very poor.
I am told that where my italian great grandmother lived it was fairly normal to keep a goat in the house (like, indoors) for financial reasons
interesting to me as I have never heard of that being a thing in the U.S.
my moms house she grew up here, had a whole thing for my grandfather to raise rabbits he would kill for the family to eat. I think someone complained about it or it wasn't legal to do anymore or somthing so he stopped doing it.