Mm. Very America centric of you to believe that no one should care if America commits or supports genocide in other countries.

I think a big part of this miscommunication was the language used earlier, like civil service and conscientious objectors. In a system like you've described, i don't think that having that as an option is necessarily a bad thing so long as it is voluntary. There are lots of benefits to programs that incentivise community service. I don't particularly like the way we recruit high schoolers into the military already, I genuinely just think a lot of the practice is manipulative and misleading. But so long as it is voluntary, it is what it is.

I was heated, sure. I responded to the notion that conscription can or should be brought here the same way I would if someone said "times are tough were going to have to start using slave labor to save the economy." Mandatory enlistment, forcing everyone in society to join the military, is equivalent to that, in my opinion. It is one of the most objectionable things any society has ever done, in my opinion.

We're ideological allies in so far as defending queer rights. Even in so far as being willing to personally involve myself in defending them, little that someone of my physiology can do. That isn't the same thing as conscription though.

Conscription is authoritarian, definitionally. Education and conscription are two entirely different things and it is wildly disingenuous to try and equate them.

Cute line, I'm not trolling though. If you're unwilling to defend your position then just stop responding, stop making a spectacle of yourself.

I never said anything about incarceration for skipping school. Skipping school and refusing the draft are 2 entirely different things.

If you can't or don't want to defend your position, you're not obligated to do so.

Putting someone in prison for refusing to do labor for the state is violence, yes. Definitionally. I don't even know where to go with this conversation if you don't understand that incarceration is violence.

Do you think the draft is a suggestion? Do you think that in countries with the draft that refusing involuntary servitude is like... optional? Just a pat on the wrist and off you go? They incarcerate you at best, and in its most vile instances they literally shoot you.

Involuntary servitude is involuntary servitude no matter whether it's being forced to work under inhumane conditions in a factory or being forced to do community labor. It's wrong. I'll happily plant trees given the choice to do so, but no, the state does not just get to force me to do labor for it.

Nationalism is the basis for a lot of what you've said about Canada yes. Even going so far as to say I don't deserve to have rights because of my strong objection of the draft. No community labor isn't itself nationalism, but Canada isn't my community. My community is the people around me, Canada is the state whose borders I was born within.

Don't even know what you're on about with ghosts or ptsd. My opposition to mandatory enlistment and involuntary servitude is not a mental illness? Unless you want to point out what exactly it is that I'm invoking, it's probably a good idea not to accuse someone of being mentally ill who you know nothing about.

I'm not in crisis. Canada is also a state, not a person. There is an international crisis in the form of the rise of american fascism both in the US and here. The response to this is not authoritarianism. Not having a draft is one of the best things about this country.

Bigotry is not the only thing that makes a conservative. But fair enough, you're an authoritarian. Or at least are fine with some aspects of authoritarianism? The draft is a necessary aspect of authoritarian states. It is an authoritarian policy in that it literally places the rights of citizens beneath the desires of the state. It puts individual bodies at the whim of the state. Directly.

Good thing our country doesn't have a draft. And I will absolutely fight back with all that I have against one. If it comes to it they can shoot me. It's get shot by fascists or get shot by authoritarians. I'll live openly and proudly no matter who points a gun at me.

Education has direct benefits for literally every single aspect of society. It also is flawed in Canada and serves a large part in the means by which working class people are indoctrinated into nationalism and anti-socialist and anti-revolutionary politics.

Civil service is only a thing in select countries. The majority of countries that have mandatory enlistment do NOT ALLOW you to participate in any kind of service that isn't directly associated with the military. I am not a conscientious objecter, I am an anti-statist anarchist, and I am against involuntary servitude in every single way that it exists. I have no moral qualms about violence being used to further the well-being of the working class. I am anti nationalist in every single possible way and absolutely resolutely opposed to the draft. You're never going to get me to believe that compelling anyone UNDER THREAT OF STATE VIOLENCE to PERFORM LABOR is morally justifiable or beneficial. The draft was the beginning point of many aspects of the modern workers' rights movement. It is wrong no matter where it shows up. One of the most abhorrent aspects of society is the military. I'm a woman, have a look sometime at how often women get r*ed while in the military.

I'd happily pick up a gun. I am pro-gun ownership. I am anti military in every single conceivable way. Absolutely I would shoot nazis if they came here and I had weapons with which to shoot them. But no, a thousand times I will never join a military. It is indefensible to force civilians under threat of state violence into involuntary servitude. It definitionally isn't voluntary. It's wrong, wrong in every single way.

To your last bit, typical of anti working class conservatives like yourself. What's your response to native communities? Do you think that native Canadians should be forced under threat of state violence to join the Canadian military or otherwise be forced to do involuntary labor for the Canadian state?

I am living my values. My values are anti authoritarianism and pro workers rights. You clearly don't even know what anarchists are. Every major workers' rights movement in history has had large participation by anarchists. Anarchists are the ones who fought back against Stalinists in Spain and Ukraine. Anarchists were the primary force behind the workers' rights revolutions at the end of the 19th century. My anarchist beliefs are foundationally a part of my beliefs in the safety and well-being of working class people. I am not an egotistic isolationist. I am saying that categorically pointing a gun at someone and forcing them to do something is wrong. It's always wrong. Threatening violators with prison time is wrong. The draft is wrong, and it is one of the best parts about this country that we do not have one.

I'm anti authoritarian, and that necessarily includes compulsory enlistment. We can also invest in training and skill development without forcing people under threat of state violence to join a military. I am also opposed to the draft no matter where it is still practiced. Anti-draft riots were some of the earliest workers rights movements.

Yes, and I also think that it is wrong in all of those places, too. South Korea is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of the rights and equality of its citizens. It is also a turbo capitalist military state. Yes, I absolutely think it's wrong there, too.

I'm an anarchist. I'm anti involuntary servitude in all it's forms and I will never be a part of the military or perform duties in support of one. I would own a gun for my own sake, for the sake of my family and my community, but I will absolutely never be an agent of state violence. There is no room whatsoever for accommodation here. This would be a fucking nightmare scenario.

You seem to have missed the part where I'm an anarchist. Never said I was anti gun nor a pacifist. I am not having a gun pointed at my head and telling me to pick up a gun and march to the orders of a military. I would absolutely defend my community, i am also not being compelled by force into the service of a national military. Nobody should be obligated by force to participate in a war.

What happened to all the anti-authoritarians in the "fuck China" thread from the other day? I guess when it's Canadian authoritarianism it's good??