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submitted 10 months ago by gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 152 points 10 months ago

Why do they care so much? Why? I want to ask them to show me on the doll where the trans person hurt them.

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 133 points 10 months ago

It's not that they got hurt.

It's that fascism is an engine of hatred that burns minorities for power.

Think about bullies: they aren't attacking people who hurt them; they're attacking people to make themselves seem dominant.

[-] bstix@feddit.dk 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You have a good point, but I'd like to add that the group mentality is probably different from what a single bully would do or feel.

I think that this comes from these people being scared of not fitting in and from not having anything in common with the other people who don't fit it, so instead of uniting for a common goal, they can only find unity in being against something that they have in common not being. That's why they attack minorities of all kinds.

It also explains the hypocrisy. The individual isn't afraid of abortions, homosexuals or mexicans. Sometimes they need to accept those on an individual level, but they still go along with the anti-politics because it's not about themselves personally.

Facism isn't just based on simple hatred. It's mostly based on fear of not fitting in, because the individual is well aware of their own not fitting in.

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[-] Altofaltception@lemmy.world 40 points 10 months ago

This is the part that I fail to comprehend either.

What is the worst thing that would happen if trans people have rights (including the right to just exist in society)?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 31 points 10 months ago

When it was making rules against gender-affirming care for children, at least they could hide behind the (ludicrously false) "we're protecting the children!" argument.

They can't even do that here. There is just no justification for this beyond either "god doesn't want this to happen" or just basic cruelty.

[-] Ekybio@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago

The cruelty has always been the point.

[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 30 points 10 months ago

A hate based ideology always needs an outgroup to discriminate against. It's really as simple as that.

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[-] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

This is how it was explained to me; I'll do the best I can to write it out in a way that makes sense.

You know how most left-leaning see MAGA as a cult of idiocy? Really Really dumb people easily motivated by propaganda, that if it weren't for trump and other republican bad actors, they would just otherwise be innocent idiots ready to be manipulated by someone else? There exists a subset of conservatives that believe idiocy and gullibility applies to both sides. Just like a simple farmer can get turned storm-the-capitol-terrorist by a few tweets and youtube videos, the theory is that an innocent dumb gay kid can be turned trans by a few tiktoks. They don't look at it like a rights issue; they don't believe that most trans people actually exist. They look at it like catering to a dangerous cult who manipulates their followers into self-mutilation and a terribly unhappy life.

The thing about making an argument in good faith, is that logic and reason generally always apply to produce the same conclusions if given the same set of facts. There are plenty of people out there perfectly content to make a bad faith argument for personal gain, and I'm not really talking about those people. The issue with trans rights is that it's very easy to make a good faith argument with only a minor dispute in facts that leads down a path of "treat the disease" rather than "give them rights" when solving in good faith for "protect the vulnerable".

Think about it this way, You probably wouldn't argue that law should cater towards the reality MAGA repubes believe the world to exist in, right?

[-] Altofaltception@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

The difference between a MAGA cultist and a trans person, is that a MAGA cultist wants to see everyone other than themselves to suffer.

[-] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I would hope that the difference is a trans person wasn't manipulated by a deranged cult during their formative years. If that isn't the difference, then the repubes were right all along.

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Well, they're not right.

If maga folks who think this way actually could get over their fear and disgust and see trans people as fellow humans, maybe they could truly listen to trans people's experiences and listen to the medical community, and come to realize their view doesn't line up with reality.

Thinking trans people are trans because someone convinced them they are is similar to thinking sexual preference is a choice (it isn't, if you didn't know that).

[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

They retool and reuse a lot of anti LGB arguments - they still hate gay people, they just know it doesn’t play well right now.

The “protect the children” crowd put out so many lies that it’s impossible to keep up with. Chuds pretend that kids can just walk into a clinic, say “I think I’m a boy/girl” and walk out with a hormone script and a surgery appointment, and because most people don’t know anything about transgender care they believe it. I don’t think your average person actually is that bothered by real trans people, they’re just lead to believe that 8 year olds are getting their penises lopped off.

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[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 33 points 10 months ago

To them, it’s “icky” and “weird”. Therefore, it must be WRONG.

Sadly, I don’t think that’s an oversimplification. For them, it really is just that simple.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Probably, but I think there's also a big element of "God hates you because my minister said so" or whatever.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

Conservatives have an over active "ick" sensitivity.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-41186-006

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

Because we’re the enemy. We’re different and bad and we make them uncomfortable so we must be why they’re unhappy and why their lives aren’t what they thought they should be

[-] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)
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[-] Humanius@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It makes more sense if you look at this as them needing a scapegoat.

Most people don't (or until very recently didn't) really understand what being transgender actually is all about.
This makes it really easy to fearmonger the general population, by painting their "lifestyle" as everything that is wrong with society.

And if you want to solve this issue.. well clearly you have to vote for them, because the other guys don't see the inherent dangers of transgenderism, now do they?

This is not anything inherent to being transgender. The scapegoat before this were homosexuals.
However society has progressed to the point where most people understand what homosexuality is, and accept (or at the very least tolerate) homosexuals existing as a part of society. It turns out they weren't pedophilic devil worshipers after all..

That will happen with transgender people too. People will learn, acceptance will grow.
And when it does, these cretins move on to the next minority group.

Bonus round: Replace "transgender" with "Jew" in the things I mentioned above, and see what that reminds you of.

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[-] quindraco@lemm.ee 14 points 10 months ago

The real question here is why driver's licenses have a gender field; we can't sanely discuss questions about it (including why "they" care about this field so much) without answering this first.

The general answer seems to be that law enforcement can match it against records to determine if someone might be a subject of interest they're on the lookout for.

Since the new Florida policy makes this harder, by raising the odds that a license does not match current records... I have no answer for you.

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 13 points 10 months ago

It's a wedge issue. They incite hatred against their preferred minority (trans people in this case) and then score points with their voters by passing laws to harm that minority.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

These are people who make up their own fantasies about oppression where they walk away the hero and someone starts a slow clap. All of this is based really on insecurity and projecting that outwards rather than to try to become a better person inside. They project their fears on others and make others suffer, as that is the only thing that can satisfy someone who believes they are pushed into a corner.

Conservatism is a mental disorder.

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[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 74 points 10 months ago

This doesn't even make sense from an administrative standpoint. The purpose of government identification is identification. If I can't update my driver's license to make me easier to identify then the entire purpose of having a gender on the ID card is moot

[-] anton 68 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It gives cops an excuse to arrest (and beat up) trans people on charges of false ID.
Edit: spelling

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 40 points 10 months ago

Oh absolutely, it's just meant to out us to every cop that sees our ID so they can decide to ruin our day. They won't actually admit that, though.

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[-] CameronDev@programming.dev 14 points 10 months ago

This is a weak justification, but here is a strawman:

If a person is involved in a firey buscrash, it is helpful to the coroner to know what biological sex someone was born as to help with identification (different bone structures etc).

To tear that strawman down again, there is absolutely no reason that the drivers licence couldnt show their gender, and the authority could also track their sex in their system.

Of course, this is Florida, the answer is obvious, they are doing it to fuck over trans people....

I understand that not being able to change forms of ID can cause problems for trans people, but if I were trans, I would be terrified to out myself to the state of Florida. I feel for my brothers and sisters affected by this bullshit.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 18 points 10 months ago

That justification gets even weaker when there's no fire in the lethal crash. They're not looking at burned skeletons, they're just looking at corpses.

Also! Skeletal differences are actually minimal in people who transitioned at a young enough age, so that wouldn't even be helpful in their case.

[-] CameronDev@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago

Yeah, its a weak justification, but worth lining up, so that it can be knocked back down.

In this strawman, the point is to be prepared for the worst case, which would be skeletal remains only.

The skeletal differences being minimal depending on the age of transition is interesting, do you have a source? Id like to know more.

Of course that gets even muddier for this strawman, because the authority could make up arbitrary rules like "If you transition before X years old, you can change your official gender". Which ends up essentially the same as the "when is it life" discussion, and we all know how that panned out.

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[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 10 points 10 months ago

If a person is involved in a firey buscrash, it is helpful to the coroner to know what biological sex someone was born as to help with identification (different bone structures etc).

Yeah... no. The bone structures aren't that different. It's more likely that anthropologist can't identify the sex by bones alone than they can. I also can't think of a different reason for it, but there really doesn't need to be a reason for them to just be bigots.

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[-] helenslunch@feddit.nl 4 points 10 months ago

How are they going to verify your gender?

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago

Well, what is the function of having sex/gender on an ID? It's to make someone more identifiable, right?

That means that "verification" only needs to be visual. The purpose is to be able to tell, at a glance, that the ID and the person are a match. That's why eye color and height are on there too. Precise record keeping is for the court house and hospital records, not a driver's license.

By using sex and making that unchangeable it actually makes my ID less useful for identifying me.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

That's an advantage that trans people who can 'pass' have, but not every person looks physically enough like their expressed gender and suddenly they're "a man in a dress" or something.

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 54 points 10 months ago

Wouldn't this come into conflict with REAL ID? Florida is currently REAL ID compliant.

Federal docs like your passport are used in verifying your REAL ID, and generally, the names need to match.

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[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 45 points 10 months ago

Another proud moment for Christianity

[-] RBWells@lemmy.world 43 points 10 months ago

I don't think the IDs need sex on them. A name, a picture, a number, birthday, height and what sort of vehicles you are licensed to operate.

If it's that divisive, remove the field. I do not have a women's driving permit, I can drive the same things my husband can, it's not used for anything related to its function. A picture gives more information on identity, then if someone transitioned they could go get a new one and it would identify them correctly.

[-] Hootz@lemmy.ca 16 points 10 months ago

Like if my banking doesn't require a gender to make a transaction why should my driver's license.

[-] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Next up: Florida creates Women's Driving Permit, only pink vehicles and engines below 120cc. Men on the other hand need a vehicle greater than 150cc with a hood high enough to no longer need to see children, as that is women's business.

[-] JustARaccoon@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Doesn't have to just be gender, trans people often change their name too as part of the transition. Also sex =/= gender

[-] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago

The article specifically mentions changing the gender and nothing about name. Lots of people get name changes for various reasons, but it’s a whole process.

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[-] LadyAutumn 41 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

So how is this law enforceable? Isn't the gender marker change through the state itself? I obviously assume they're going to stop providing the changes, but what about people who have already had it changed? Or is this meant to punish trans people from other states traveling to Florida?

Inevitably a cisgender woman who does not meet enforced standards of femininity will get arrested for this. Or trans men who have not changed their gender marker. Violence against queer people and cis women is the intention.

[-] deania@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago

I can absolutely see someone with androgen insensitivity syndrome (female with XY chromosomes) getting thrown in jail for this.

[-] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

I think the most pertinent question these days is why is sex listed on a drivers licence anyway? If it's referring to phenotype why does anyone I give my ID to need to know what genitals are in my smallclothes? If it's referring to chromasomal makeup why the hell is that relevant to the guy at the liquor store?

If it refers to gender then the consideration becomes that you can't always intuit gender from presentation so that's hardly good at creating any benefit for visual identification.

ID is an issue in general for non-binary people. Here in Canada your passport and licence have to match but getting an X gender marker on your passport means your documents have a solid opportunity to subject you to travel discrimination and whether or not that ID will even be accepted abroad becomes a serious and sometimes peicemeal question.

The question of "should we allow changes of sex on identifying documents" is kind of missing the point. We should be talking total abolition of registration of sex on drivers licences.

[-] feminalpanda@lemmings.world 4 points 10 months ago

It's supposed to be gender but Florida is wanting to change that.

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[-] stoly@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

I have always wondered the same. Why does gender matter? Why is race sometimes included in documents?

It all feels very much like 19th Century thinking where the place and date of production are the most important aspects of your being.

[-] Egerbur@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

WTF?!

Ok, this is obvious, but this is just messed up.

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Conservatives can all go fuck themselves.

[-] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

That's going to help with their uninsurable homes and crime!

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this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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