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[-] Heresy_generator@kbin.social 153 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Just glossing over implementation. So every car will have to have wireless communications of some sort? Will there be some government system that all California cars will have to be integrated with that tracks where they are at all times so the car can know the correct speed limit? A tracking system that surely would never be abused or turned into a surveillance device.

"I don't think it's at all an overreach, and I don't think most people would view it as an overreach, we have speed limits, I think most people support speed limits because people know that speed kills," Wiener said.

Not unless they think about it for five seconds.

[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 47 points 1 year ago

Speed doesn't kill.

It's the sudden stop that kills you.

[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

Be careful, or politicians are gonna draft a bill preventing your from applying too much braking force too quickly. Thats about in line with the logic on this bill.

[-] SnotFlickerman 9 points 1 year ago

Next up, skin cancer:

Suns don't kill people. People with suns kill people.

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[-] Fondots@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

One way I could think to implement it without any tracking or data connection connection with no data being transmitted from the vehicle would be by placing infrared strobe lights periodically along the road, possibly at the same places we already have speed limit signs. The flashing is invisible to the human eye but could be picked up by cameras on the vehicle, vary the speed or pattern of the strobe to indicate a different speed limit.

Something pretty similar is already used by a lot of emergency vehicles to trigger green lights, just the arrangement is reversed with a strobe on the vehicle and a sensor on the traffic signal.

Of course such a system would potentially be vulnerable to things like power outages (strobe can't strobe if it doesn't have power) bad weather (heavy fog, or if the camera and/orr strobe are covered in snow,) and someone could potentially circumvent it by just mounting a strobe light on their car pointed at the camera.

You could probably address the snow/fog issue by locking the car to a lower speed if no strobe is detected, maybe 25 or 35mph, because in those conditions people should generally be driving slower anyway, and then you don't have the expense of needing to put strobes around lower speed areas. And the power issue could be addressed with the kind of solar panels and/or backup batteries that already power some streetlights and such.

And for those who tamper with the system to circumvent it, we're never going to stop speeders entirely, but we can increase the fines to make up for lost revenue to keep police departments happy, they make less traffic stops and rake in the same amount of money.

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[-] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 59 points 1 year ago

I am not a "muh freedom" guy, I don't drive more than 10 over anyway. But this is just logistically a bad way to stop speeding.

Where does my car get the current speed limit information? How and when does it update as speed limits change? Will school systems around the country have to submit a list of which days are "school days" for school zone speed limits?

What if the GPS registers you on the 30mph road below or next to the 70mph highway, long term or even for a momentary glitch? Who is at fault if that causes you to be in an accident?

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[-] Veedem@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago

What about in an emergency? What is someone needs to go over that limit for evasive maneuvers or something?

I get it, people speed, but put the cameras up and just fine them. That’s all.

[-] argh_another_username@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What about in an emergency? What is someone needs to go over that limit for evasive maneuvers or something?

(Technologically speaking) Do it. Since we’re talking communication and electronics, you’ll be automatically reported. Present your excuse and let’s see what happens.

(I’m not saying that I’m in favour of this.)

Oh, and I’ve driven a car with speed limiter. It’s like cruise control, but it doesn’t let you go above the speed you choose. It was an amazing experience, I loved it. You press the accelerator, you get to that speed and it stays there. You feel a resistance on the pedal. If you want, simply force the pedal a bit more. It will turn the controller off and let you drive faster.

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[-] ninpnin@sopuli.xyz 44 points 1 year ago

I actually quite dislike cars but this is fucking insane

[-] j4k3@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago
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[-] Chainweasel@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I saw a video yesterday of cars fleeing the 2011 tsunami in Japan, I'm willing to bet those people exceeded 10mph over the posted speed limit trying to get away from the water.
Limiting the speed of the vehicles isn't going to improve driving skills or eliminate distractions. It isn't going to make people drive safer, just slower. I'm sure any situation where people need to go 10+ miles over the speed limit is going to be exceedingly rare and limited to things like fleeing forest fires or tsunamis, but limiting the speed isn't going to have a huge impact on accidents.
It could decrease fuel consumption and emissions though 🤷‍♂️.
But it still seems like a problem that could be solved with better enforcement.

[-] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 1 year ago

There are reasons other than natural disasters that happen all the time. Health emergencies are a fine example of this. Yes, ideally you’d wait for an ambulance but oft times that’s just not viable.

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[-] hightrix@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

10mph over? Have they driven on CA freeways? The vast majority of traffic is moving at 15+ mph over.

This will cause traffic slow downs and more road rage.

[-] Landless2029@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

One interesting about speeding in traffic. Often you're rushing just to stop.

It's been proven that if you cap the max speed in heavy traffic everyone gets through it faster. Less stop and go with merges and guesses.

Think of all the times someone sped up to prevent you from changing lanes? Or someone blocks you during a zipper merge.

Traffic wouldn't suck as much if people didn't suck. I can't wait until a few decades from now we've got AI cars Managing it for us.

[-] rmuk@feddit.uk 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Variable speed limits just keep the road ticking over and they're great. In the UK there were a bunch of highway improvements being rolled out, like reversible lanes, traffic flow monitoring and, yes, full-time variable speed limits and they all worked really, really well. But they also got rid of the hard shoulder (refuge lane) and the whole thing was collectively referred to as "smart motorways". Needless to say that lots of people were injured or killed by the lack of hard shoulders, so now the government is poised to announce a rollback of all the smart motorway measures, including the absolutely superb variable speed limits.

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[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago

This will cause traffic slow downs

That's literally the point.

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[-] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 34 points 1 year ago

This tech should be developed and used to stop chase vehicles. Also if it is used to stop people from going 10 over then we shouldn't have cops checking people's speed anymore.

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[-] nothing@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago

Sounds like a roundabout way to track everyone

[-] bitwaba@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

You don't have to track a car to limit how fast it goes. Speed governerors exist inside gas powered cars already. All that has to be done is 1) legally require a manufacturer to limit speeds of their vehicles, and 2) prosecute them when they do not implement those restrictions. The rest is lawyers and lines of code (and lines of coke I guess)

[-] suodrazah@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

You need location data to be able to determine what limit to impose.

And I bet you anything it will be a cloud based system.

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[-] nothing@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

How do you determine the location of the car and the speed limit on that section of road? Sounds awfully close to tracking it.

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[-] NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Since a lot of discussion is happening around how they're going to implement this, and the article doesn't go into the details, here's more information: https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/20240124-senator-wiener-introduces-groundbreaking-bills-slash-california-road-deaths-epidemic

In line with NTSB recommendations, SB 961 requires every passenger vehicle, truck, and bus manufactured or sold in the state to be equipped with speed governors that limits the vehicle’s speed based on the speed limit for the roadway segment. The maximum speed threshold over the speed limit for that segment that the speed governor may permit the vehicle to travel at is 10 miles per hour over the speed limit. SB 961 also permits the vehicle operator to temporarily override the speed governor function. SB 961’s speed governor requirement does not apply to emergency vehicles.

And if anyone really wants to dive into it, the actual text for the bill is here: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB961

[-] SnotFlickerman 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why not just make vehicles that can't do insane speeds?

I had a fucking 4-cylinder Ford Ranger from the 80's that topped out at 65mph. I don't mean the speedometer stopped at 65mph, the speedometer went to 80. I mean with the pedal fully floored, that's the fastest I could go.

This is a choice by automakers, just like the oversize way-too-tall child-killing truck hoods are too.

Just making a car that can't go that fast was always a solution and honestly, the fact that we just let automakers make cars that can go like 200mph when they're supposed to be "street legal" is a fucking joke and a half. Nobody needs that shit, but every chucklefuck who wants to bang a young woman thinks some sports car is how they're gonna do it. Fucking pathetic.

[-] DemBoSain@midwest.social 10 points 1 year ago

Cars are designed for fuel efficiency (well, it should at least be considered.) To make an IC engine efficient, it has to be able to rev higher, and reach higher speeds. So while it can technically reach 100 mph, it's most efficient at 55.

If you make an engine with a top speed of 65mph, and run it at 65mph all the time, it's going to guzzle fuel like an alcoholic going through an angry divorce.

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[-] CheeseChief@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Old cars for the win!

[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 14 points 1 year ago

Lots of people arguing about the practicality of this, or whether it can be done without invading privacy or slippery-sloping into mass surveillance.

The thing is: Even if it could be done perfectly — giving instant leeway when emergencies occur, being perfectly private forever, with perfectly accurate sensors — I still don’t think we’d want it.

That’s because laws are not just mechanical things. They are social things. When we put up a speed limit sign, it’s not just to configure a number in the driver’s mind. It’s to remind them to think about how they’re interacting with the community around them.

De-emphasizing that responsibility runs counter to this social purpose, which I think we intuitively understand at some level even if we reflexively bring out other claims in order to object to the policy.

[-] willis936@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

This is a good idea if they only put it in public service government issue cars.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Has Scott Wiener ever driven on a freeway with clear traffic?

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

Why not just make people follow the speed limit? Why let them go 10mph over in the first place?

[-] noride@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago

To allow for vehicles to pass one another before the end of this century.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

If they're going fast enough that the speed limit isn't fast enough to pass them, maybe you don't need to pass them.

If I'm stuck behind a tractor on the road, they're probably going 15 mph and I can easily pass them by just going the speed limit. If you're stuck behind someone going 50 in a 55, tough luck. It's not like you're losing that much time anyway.

You save like 3 minutes over 30 miles. It's nothing. People just think it's so much faster because they don't do the math.

[-] nicetriangle@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

You sound like someone who has never themselves driven in real traffic before.

[-] SnotFlickerman 10 points 1 year ago

You mean like the jackholes who think the best way out of a traffic jam is to drive on the shoulder so they can pass everybody? 🙄

"Real traffic" is nearly a dead-stop and you're not in a position to gun it to get ahead in most cases.

Source: The real traffic of Seattle.

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[-] argh_another_username@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago

If everyone is driving 10mph above the speed limit, we’re back to square one.

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[-] auekay@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

I'm currently in a rental that reads street signs and keeps the limit on the dash. Very handy for double-checking when you're suddenly not going the same speed as traffic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic-sign_recognition

[-] Patches@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Had a Budget truck like this.

Going 70 down the Interstate when it saw a 15mph sign for a weigh station. Truck started slowing down real quick. It scared the piss out of me, and almost caused a huge pile up.

Fuck that shit.

[-] Death_Equity@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

In my experience with them by Dodge is the speed is wrong often enough where it can be a problem.

Saying 25mph when it is 45mph is one thing, but the 45mph when it is 25mph is another. There are a few rural roads where it said 30mph when it was 55mph. I would see the speed on the dash and think it was an odd speed for the road and Waze said something other than the car, so I would be in this total state of not knowing to trust the car, myself, or Waze. Eventually I just started to ignore the car and use my experience and observations weighted against Waze.

If it were a perfect system, that'd be cool.

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[-] BlindFrog@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

So this reminds of this book I read called The Circle, in which everyone's fascination with technology and tracking and data collecting slippery-sloped at breakneck speed into 1984, except any stranger with an internet connection became your Big Brother.

We have many other environmental ways to encourage people to drive slower, like narrower lanes, or those long thin rumble-strip-style speed bumps, or landscaping with greenery.

BTW, why is it so hard to get information off google on traffic calming studies for freeways? Everything is about urban or suburban areas, smh. When I use "freeways" in quotes, suddenly I get a whole bunch of irrelevant results about people trying to get over their fear of driving on the freeway. Wtf google.

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[-] synae@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 1 year ago

Oof. I generally am a supporter of Scott Wiener but this is not a winning issue. Mass transit, drugs, and lgbtq issues are his wheelhouse

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this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024
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