My HOA has them and advertises them as a way to keep the neighborhood safer. Most people buy it. I hope the tide turns on these though and that more stories like this continue to show they can affect bottom lines.
I have this theory that visibly disabled security devices harm the public perception of safety more than no devices being there in the first place.
also ring cameras are spying too. i see them still installed in most houses.
Would be cool if this flock debacle dragged the rest of the CCTV industry down with it..
This Realtor is an idiot. Advocate for the buyer?
So you're saying the realtor should advocate to have the camera taken down?
I mean, I'd be all for that as a means to get rid of them, but I'm pretty sure that is NOT going to happen.
I'm not a realtor, and I hate that business, but yes absolutely. You're working for the buyer or the seller.
For example, in the u.s. If you want to buy a house, get your own rep. If you want to sell a house, get your own rep. None of this is /real/ and it's fucking stupid but it is like cutting the grass. Its what you're supposed to do
But also yeah that real estate person has an obligation to advocate for their client
My hoa has this. Wish I knew before I moved in. My car got vandalized, and the offender was their friend. They decided to protect him and not give out the recording. Also sent out email with disclaimer: cameras are not for our safety or security. What are they for then?!?! Stalking us?!?
That's an instant "sue and subpoena the footage"
Sue who? I don't know the guy. And I have no proof. All i have is a bad photo of him near my car.
I think this would be my breaking point for sure
Flock cameras aside, I would never buy a home that's part of an HOA. There have been too many stories over the last 10 years of these terrible people abusing their power, up-to and including stealing people's home out from under them. That neighborhood is unlivable.
My HOA seems to be one of the best options - $300/year and zero rules about bins being x inches from the house, paint restrictions, etc. The money goes towards the subdivision pool and that's it.
But I'm worried that the two trustees (who are in their 70s) will kick it and someone less hands off will take over.
Oh sweet summer child.
Nobody thinks THEIR HOA can turn to shit, but all it takes is maybe five people to take over and fuck it entirely. I moved into a one of these shitbag neighborhoods because it was the only thing available at the time that fit the budget and met the other criteria. Buying during late covid was a mess. I've spent a LOT of time pouring over the legal documents, charters, etc and pulling as many docs out of the county recorder's website as I could find. The pastiche of state and local laws that interleave into HOAs is a confusing mess at best. In the case of mine, the board members got something through that changed the voting requirements for dissolution of the HOA from 60% to 95%. No, they did not hold a vote to do it, they just did it via the procedures laid out in the founding documents. I've NEVER witness or been invited to any voting activities, yet we have a new board president somehow. It's the same group of ten white boomers that just trade back and forth. Right now, the only thing that's holding them down is that they pissed away all the money so they have little to nothing left to engage in any sort of legal battles with homeowners. However, they did just raise the fees (again, no voting that I am aware of) so that may change.
Your HOA may be benign now, but all it takes are a handful of assholes to fuck up the whole thing and create misery in the process. A few boomer busybodies, maybe one lawyer and you're fucked.
Also, many of these things will "sell" the management to a 3rd party that will run them like a slumlord. They will send people out to generate infractions and fines that they get to keep. Grass too long, fine. Mailbox not right, another fine. Garbage out too early/late, that's a fine. Most of the money goes to the management company, the board trustees will put the rest into the HOA funds, but there is almost zero oversight for what happens to the money.
HOAs are bullshit I would love to burn mine down; I'm half tempted to start a legal battle with mine just because I know that they dont' have a lot of money and I might be able to bully them into something, but I'd never get rid of it. Plus it would be an expensive gamble.
Would it hurt to sound less condescending?
Yep. Doesn't matter if this HOA is 'one of the good ones'. It can become a horror show at any time whenever the leadership changes.
Something like 35% of all homes in the US are governed by HOAs and roughly 2/3 of all new developments are adopting HOAs.
Reason number 4629 why I'll never be immigrating to the US. "Land of the free" my ass.
I've recently just understood what a HOA is. As a Canadian I thought they were "Unincorporated Municipalities" or there's also "Rate Payers Associations" which is like a proto-town where there's a group providing town-like services amongst themselves. Which to me is some sick ass anarchist shit. But an HOA is just letting your neigbours tell you what to do? That's lame.
HOAs were created because racists didn't want black people in their neighborhood. I fucking hate HOAs.
Judging by another guys post, HOA's are way of offloading a whole new tax structure on individual neighborhoods. The whole being racist thing is how they convinced everyone to pay it.
Wait until you learn about when they created SATs.
HOAs vary a lot. In my city, every new development has one as a condition of getting permits from the city. That's mainly because cars and their infrastructure are stupidly expensive, the city just can't afford to maintain it all without raising property taxes. I have friends who live in an HOA neighborhood, and basically they just pay an extra monthly bill to cover snow removal, maintenance of common areas, and such. For them, it's nothing like the horror stories of HOAs that can take your house if your mailbox is the wrong color. It is just a group providing services that the city can't afford anymore.
So they aren't a proto-city like an unassumed municipality, they are like a posto-city where late stage capitalism goes to retire and find a new revenu stream.
Some of them, yeah.
the city just can’t afford to maintain it all without raising property taxes
So, instead, everybody gets to pay HOA fees. I guess as long as you don't call it a 'tax' people will go along with it.
I don't have an HOA but my property operates under deed restrictions that limit property owners in meaningful ways, establishing usage of the wells, easements, number of structures and so forth.
One of my neighbors repeatedly referred to herself as "the head of the HOA" and I told her she needed to stop saying that because we don't have one. I didn't say as much but I would hire an attorney to send a C&D if she were to keep that up.
HOA's! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of municipalities, Dude, at least it's a system of governance!
at least it’s a system of governance!
Local governments are subject to monitored elections and the bill of rights.
HOAs are neither. Their elections can easily be cheated, and they're under no legal obligation to respect the civil rights of their members.
Well, the quote I butchered was meant to denigrate HOA's and say that municipalities were indeed a form of governance whereas HOA's are a form of tyranny. So I'm not sure what point your making, but high five!
But an HOA is just letting your neigbours tell you what to do? That’s lame.
Sure, but there's a chance they could become the ones fucking their neighbors over for cheap thrills! That makes it okay! /s
It is free, but that privilege doesn't come for free.
As long as you have enough money and don't step on the toes of other people who have money, you can seemingly get away with everything.
"With freedom and justice for all who can afford it."
Time to go live on the other 65%.
I'll live in a goddamn cardboard box before I live in an HOA house.
One of the most basic people I know lives in one and when I asked him why, he just said the properly values are high. He not the most creative person and doesn't really care about politics or anything really, so it works for him.
You should be allowed to shoot at flock cameras with a pellet gun if you're standing on your property while doing it. If you can hit the lens from there, it was infringing on your privacy on your property.
Now I want to figure out what's the maximum possible range a highly customized 'pellet gun' could shoot if you really engineer the hell out of increasing the range...
Gas powered rifles have stupid range. There’s a YT channel that shows them sniping pidgeons off a farm.
In the US you are legally allowed to record anything visible from public property. Meaning the flock cameras could be pointed directly at your house and it’d be legal.
I mean, they’d suddenly disappear somewhat frequently, but they’d be legal while there.
You can also claim other peoples property if it's been left over 48 hours and is in public. Parking was a fucking nightmare and we would have have these contractor dumpsters that had a really bad habit of staying long past their permit length, well I guess I have a dumpster to either scrap or sell. There's a form and a whole process, but make Flock claim every camera.
Is there an app that shows you where flock cameras are and where they are pointed?
Billionaires: Yes, your property values are much lower now. How about you sell to us before things get worse?
HOA itself should lower property value, let alone surveillance. I can’t ever imagine myself living in HOA.
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Learn more at deflock.me
