This just plays into the myth that there are workers and jobs that don't deserve a living wage and job security.
The statement is true. You have to create your own job.
After unionizing I have noticed that there aren't really many jobs worth applying to. Most jobs advertised are worse than what I already have.
It's not just about the pay. To me it's more about the company "growing up" and acknowledging the need to balance the relationship between management and the qualified personnel, instead of viewing employees as unskilled servants.
The reason I couldn't find a job like that before is pretty clear. We also don't post job openings on the web anymore. First of all we don't have a lot of people quitting, but we also have plenty of qualified union members to choose from when we do have vacancies.
The way I see it, unionization is primarily an upgrade for the company. It's not just access to qualified personnel. It also cuts out a lot of the bullshit conflicts between management and employees, because there are general agreements on a lot more things.
If they want employees to take the company serious, they need to treat their employees seriously.
Throwing pizza parties and threatening low paid unskilled workers with arbitrary management decisions or making random bonuses and shit doesn't achieve anything like this. It's a complete waste of time in comparison to having a proper clear union agreement.
Unionisation as a company upgrade is exactly how we in Australia achieved a huge productivity boom in the 90s without wages growing too fast or stagnating. Howard fucked that up in the 2000s in the name of business and both wages and productivity growth stalled.
Here's what does not make sense to me, my dad was in the heavy equipment operators union for 50 some years, his entire working life after he got out of the military and after he retired (with a union pension mind you) then he fucking backs all the Republican anti union assholes. Like what! Why would you support those who are actively trying to do away with worker protections? Well now he's passed on and that same union is providing spousal benefits for my mom. At least she's not supporting these assholes
I had a civics teacher in high school who claimed that unions served a purpose when they began, but were obsolete now... with the exception of teacher's unions! He was just a conservative stooge, I wonder if he simply forgot about Police Unions.
Propaganda is that powerful.
I'll never understand why the left (all of it, dems leftist, liberals) have not done counter propaganda. Like we should have been actively deprogramming these people but the left is too busy fighting amongst themselves and waiting for the perfect candidates whose ideologies align with everyone's beliefs to come along and make everything work flawlessly.
DNC holds the funds to do the real mainstream advertising campaigns and anyone farther to the left is left with internet memes. Well, mainstream media is being viewed with less and less trust everyday.
Because explaining the cause and effect of a real problem is much harder than pointing to an out group and saying "everyone that's not you is a bag guy"
Propaganda works because it creates enemies. When the real problem is more complicated, it takes a lot more work to explain.
Even if your message is "billionaires are bad" that's a group that people think they want to be a member of, which makes it hard to get behind.
It's much easier to point to people without power and say "you don't want to be them, you don't want to be around them, let's get rid of them"
Part of that is a lot of us have a conscious. The right traditionally doesn't have one or a strong one.
You understand that propaganda costs money (and by extension, a person's time), right?
The right has all the money, the left has none. The right has the backing of big media empires, the left has none. A lot of us on the left are too busy just trying to survive in this capitalistic hellscape, and even we did make some "counter-propaganda" as you say, it certainly won't be picked up by the media and/or it won't be taken seriously by an already brainwashed audience.
My Dad was a firefighter for 35 years. He was a union man working a public sector job. He had a great retirement due to his union and his pension.
Yet somehow he votes MAGA and thinks public spending and unions are evil.
How? How do they believe this m I'll never understand
Because it impact someone else.
Studies have shown that there's a difference between rural and urban people. Rural people have to defend themselves from strangers, so they're vary wary of strangers. They have to help each other to survive, so if you know them and they know you, they'll give you the shirt off their back. So they're scared of the "other". This means it's easy to manipulate them to hate people that don't look like them or believe the things they do.
And then something happens and they meet a person of color who saves them or helps them, and THAT person of color is now in the 'family' - a safe person to them. But all the OTHER strangers are dangers.
It's not like urban is completely different. You are SURROUNDED by strangers, and you all have to get along to survive. Stand on the correct side of the escalator so those walking up can do so. Don't say howdy to every stranger because you'd quickly go hoarse. But of course if someone is in trouble, the crowd will (a lot of the time) help them - call 911 for resources.
Neither of them is perfect on the good stuff I mentioned, but the point is that rural are accustomed to helping those they know, and urban are accustomed to helping strangers. It's just a core basic difference. edit: forgot one of my conclusory points on this: So rural types are accustomed to being around people and ideas that match their own, whereas urban types are accustomed to being around people and ideas wildly different from their own.
And it's not completely determined by where you live, just your beliefs, how you were raised, et cetera.
Conservatives believe the world is full of rules that protect them from The Other gaining control over them and enslaving them or whatever evils they imagine. But then once they experience some exception - abortion is evil until their little girl gets pregnant and needs and abortion but that's an EXCEPTION and abortion is still MURDER just not for my little girl who actually NEEDED one.
So you'll find sometimes that these exceptions poke little holes in the conservative belief system they hold - this one hates people of color and immigration but their kid had drug problems and ended up in prison so they believe in prison reform. But their neightbor doesn't believe in prison reform because nothing affected THEM that way.
All of my above isn't totally accurate, certainly not across the board, but it is a general thrust in a large part of the problem. A similar discussion can be had about individualistic societies vs collectivistic societies with some similar talking points. There are some advantages and disadvantages to each.
Perhaps he was of the mindset that he would've been better off without the Union.
I used to work with auto mechanics that were in a union and some of them did not want to be. They thought they wouldve been better off not paying the Union dues.
I can almost guarantee they were better off in the union but these guys seemed mostly Republican.
Unions need to spend a little bit of time advocating for themselves.
Hold a mandatory meeting occasionally (on the clock) showing what they are pushing for and what they got from the company.
If they're not doing that, either the union is no longer effective, or it's not communicating with their workers. Union heads absolutely must be talking to the front line workers constantly, otherwise fox news will.
Republicans spent a war chest and decades spinning culture war propaganda after the Nixon debacle. They wanted to insulate themselves from consequences and destroy any critical media.
Unions can be a problem if it's just another set of bosses who are seeking to profit from the system. So like being in a HOA where you let the dipshit homebodies with nothing better to do get in charge and start fining everyone.
You have to stand up and be involved. It's not easy, but it means that instead of being you against HR by yourself, it's you and all your buddies against HR on your behalf.
In the best case scenario, it provides a way for the company managerment to hear ideas from the employees - because a good company listens. Treat your people right and they will look for ways to make things work better and increase your profits. So it's in your best interest. Treat your employees like shit and that is what you'll get out of them.
It takes a long time and a concerted effort to morph a healthy union into what's basically organized crime (see: police "unions").
Otherwise, unions are just groups of people. People can be corrupt, and healthy unions have mechanisms and safeguards for excising that corruption.
The F.O.P., for example, wasn't created overnight. It's built on generation upon generation of corrupt cops covering for each other. That is not a union, that's a gang.
It is not just corruption. It's laziness. Every union I have worked with (2 I worked in, 1 I managed union workers) has been in favor of the lowest common denominator. They spend time squabbling about the worker that barely get by doing the bare minimum but knows the rules. Meanwhile the really hard workers get fired for one time mistakes and the really good workers don't make as much as they should because of the guys that are barely skating by.
Unions don't do what they used to. They used to make management know that they needed to cooperate. Now it is not how they work together.
They spend time squabbling about the worker that barely get by doing the bare minimum but knows the rules. Meanwhile the really hard workers get fired for one time mistakes
I don't believe you that this is a thing that you have personally experienced in a union.
Meanwhile the really hard workers get fired for one time mistakes
Usually literally contractually impossible based on the contract that was negotiated by the union's collective bargaining bloc.
Unions are ultimately groups of people. If you don't like the priorities and direction of the leadership, then you vote for new leadership.
Everyone gets paid more, including the ones who work really hard. They just don't get to steal their coworkers job because they had a rough month at home and didn't meet some bullshit made up quota. No, you support that coworker, because they deserve a living wage too, even if they're going through something.
Even if that thing is opaque and is appears to others as "laziness". Shit ain't your business beyond ”i hope things get better for them, and I am so glad that the leave they need to take will not permanently ruin them financially and force their family to move back with their inlaws in goddamn India" or wherever.
Like Jesus, have some common fucking decency for your coworkers.
News flash: working harder than you need to does not get your more money in non-union positions either. You just end up with more responsibility and less free time.
So I'm lying for fancy Internet points? How fucking dumb are you?
I speak my experience. Take it or don't. I don't care if you want to hear it or not. Union reps are just employees with different departments. They do not represent the workers. They represent the companies and only posture with egregious abuses of powers.
They hold zero weight in leverage. Simply because they cannot effect change. They no longer can intimidate or change management's goals. It's an archaic use of power. Management can find reasons and hire someone cheaper.
I absolutely don't think it's right. But it's what the unions are in any capacity that I have experienced.
Yes literally anything can be bad
Fuck me, I either need to join a better union or move to NYC and become a housekeeper.
100k in NYC is a basic living necessity. Unless you are frugal, anything less and you will be going in the red most months trying to pay all your bills and rent.
Yep this is correct. About the same in Toronto.
Well, what would you expect from being in the capital of Canada?
(I never ever tire of making this stupid little joke because it is a stupid little joke and intend it to express my love for you guys up there <3 )
J'ai pensé que c'était Montréal??
OH no, it's the Fr*nch¹
For you I have a joke:
Q: How do you pick up an old French lady?
A: "Voulez-vous crochet avec moi ce soir?"
:)
¹ I normally hate this joke, but I had to pull it out in this reply just for you…
https://www.zillow.com/manhattan-new-york-ny/apartments-1-bedrooms/2_p/
1 bedroom, from what I saw at a quick glance, $2900-7000 / month.
Edit: I searched "1br apartment nyc" and posted the results here. I did not pick manhattan. I know very little about NYC. I was not trying to pick the most expensive.
Here is Brooklyn, and the first result is $3,400.
The Bronx, first result is $2,600.
Accurate. But to soften the blow a bit, two things often left out of the story that are sort of particular to this city:
- When you’re surrounded by third spaces and cheap food, studios can be more livable than elsewhere.
- Roommate living is way more common here since it’s the only reliable way to score sub-sub-market rent (like well below studio prices) which means a lot more options to choose from than in most cities. Also a useful hack for new arrivals who want a few months to scope out different neighborhoods before settling.
Cheap food? Where?
OK admittedly I was thinking of takeout, so nothing i had in mind would be responsible long term lol
My groceries are pretty simple, and I get specific things at specific places because I’ve been here a while, so I’m not sure it’s representative, but the city is building discount grocery stores (East Harlem, HP in the Bronx, and somewhere in Queens and Brooklyn but I haven’t heard where) so longterm grub should be more affordable too
It'll be interesting to see what the city stores end up doing. Currently they are being placed in food deserts, so they shouldn't create much competition unless their price difference is large enough to justify the public transit to get there.
Maybe there will be some price decreases with the nearest private stores, but hard to say.
To be clear, I think these stores are a wonderful program that will really benefit the areas they are opened in. I'm just curious if they will have any broader effects. Hopefully they open even more in the future
Yeah I hope so. Also good question. Not sure how big of an impact it will make on the rest of grocery store pricing. But it’s a good bet tons of people are willing to cross town for the inexpensive groceries if the crowds at the Costco on 117th are any indication lol.
Yeah, Manhattan you're not living in on 100k unless you want to live in a shoebox studio or in Harlem.
That being said there's a lot more to the city than Manhattan, and the other boroughs are a lot more affordable.
Cost of living is a big factor here. 100k in NYC is comparable to 50k in the Midwest. Stepping outside in NYC feels like it costs 100 dollars every time you do it.
Stepping outside in NYC feels like it costs 100 dollars every time you do it.
I feel the opposite, because I just walk places instead of driving. Not having a car is a big savings!
I got my monthly food budget around $100/month for a bit when I was unemployed.
Yeah, no car is huge. Also, while there's obviously very expensive restaurants, there's also a lot of very inexpensive street food options all over the place that other "less expensive cities" don't have. One can get extremely reasonably priced groceries in Chinatown. It's not all bad in NYC.
... and pay NYC rent, so good luck with that.
"Don't unionize, just get a better job."
What an ass statement fitting the appropriate snark reply: "Thanks, I'm fucking cured."
And is there anything particularly unique about the labor environment in NYC?
Mostly the cost of living there. 100k in NYC is closer to what 60k would be like in a cheaper part of the country.
Maybe that describes the amount, but not the ability to organize. If this is true, there's something unique about the organizing environment in NYC that would be good to know about, both to learn from, and so we don't Children's Crusade workers into homelessness.
A fanciful guess: the mass transit over car culture means less ambient isolation. You see and interact with more people from more walks of life. You can walk places after work together, have long talks on the train. It's less soul sucking than just driving to work and home by yourself.
How do we get this for the tech sector? We have all the tools to organize.
Step 1... change the hearts and minds of all the libertarians and crypto Bros
Work Reform
A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.