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[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 85 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

There's no legitimate purpose for destroying these books.

There are non-invasive ways scan books. But the destruction is an added bonus. These companies make a copy of these public domain books and then pulp the remains. They're rare, so that means they're hard to find (that's what rare means, after all).

Then, they can turn around and sell their dataset to AI companies.

The destruction is the point.

Capitalism always creates perverse incentives. The most profitable thing you can do is seize something readily available and make it impossible to get without paying you.

But which companies are doing this? It sounds like these are companies that supply training data to AI companies. I think we need names.

[-] kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 3 weeks ago

They destroy them to comply with fair use laws. A judge in San Francisco ruled this practice as fair use.

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago

Do you have a case to cite for that? Not calling you out or anything but I want know who the hell ruled that and why. That's insane

[-] kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 weeks ago
[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago

Thank you! Though it doesn't seem the judge imposed any requirement to destroy the physical copies just that creating a large digital library from the copies for reuse would violate the IP rights of the work owners

[-] dil@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 weeks ago

I think rare here may just mean misprints or something else rather than them destroying the one and only copy of books

[-] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 3 weeks ago

No, they plunder antiquitarian book shops around the globe. There exist very few copies of those books around and they sure aren't digitized anywhere.

[-] zbyte64@awful.systems 5 points 3 weeks ago

Like the mangrove forests in Africa and Asia. Scarcity is a feature, not a bug.

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

I misread that as:

The most profitable thing you can do is seize someone readily available [...]

... and realized that also tracks.

[-] HerbGrower@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 weeks ago

If its public domain couldn't anyone else with a copy make it freely available

[-] vext01@feddit.uk 55 points 3 weeks ago

Not nice to see books being destroyed, but this part, I'm sure, will upset people:

Lastly, and most importantly, if you use these AI chatbots, you are complicit.

For some people the choice to use a bot or not is a choice of having the job, or not.

[-] Dojan@pawb.social 34 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

but this part, I'm sure, will upset people

I don't know that that's a bad thing. If you use these models, you are complicit; you're part of creating the "need" for these models. You don't necessarily have a choice (because realistically losing your job and all the stuff that entails isn't a real choice, and that's fully part of how the system is intended to work), but you're still complicit.

We as individuals don't have a lot of power, because power is mostly tied to some kind of capital. That's why working together is so important, because it's only by working together we'll have any real power to impact things.

I don't think being upset is a bad thing. Recognise it, and do something about it. It could be something small like talking to colleagues about it, or contacting a union representative, or a politician. Or go big, no shame in that either.

It’s complicity under duress, essentially. Which is shitty in a few different directions.

[-] Dojan@pawb.social 5 points 3 weeks ago

Exactly, it's built on systemic violence, in that when you don't have a job you're rendered more or less useless to society and left to wither by the wayside. Thus it is in the individuals immediate best interest to keep working with, thus enforcing these systems.

Worrying about anything beyond the immediate is for those with means, unfortunately.

I live in Sweden. I grew up a povvo bitch, but I've managed to do well for myself over the years. Even so, I don't have anything to fall back on. If I lost my job I'd luckily have unemployment, through my union and various labour rights, but that too has a limit.

I get why people wouldn't want to fight back, which is what leads to doomerism and wishes to just burn the entire system to the ground in the hopes of building something better next time. Which I get too, I feel that all the time; improvement seems unlikely given the perpetual decline I've witnessed my entire life. Even so, I contact politicians, and I engage with my union.

[-] PerfectDark@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

"For some people the choice to use a bot or not is a choice of having the job, or not."

That would be Gardiner's side of the article. I contributed by wroting two sections on this one:

  • The Shadow of Fahrenheit 451, and
  • “People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.”

Just to explain whose take is whose for this little article, at least.

[-] wakko@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

For some people the choice to use a bot or not is a choice of having the job, or not.

Going to work for yourself is always an option. Ask any street busker. Insinuating it isn't is your complicity.

[-] vext01@feddit.uk 14 points 3 weeks ago

I'm sure people with dependents, a mortgage , rent to pay, debt to clear, etc. would be thrilled with your suggestion.

[-] wakko@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

Oh dear. The consequences of ones own choices. It's almost like you're trying to dictate the creature comforts of your cell, not eliminate the imprisonment entirely.

Maybe you should think real hard about the asymmetry in your position.

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 weeks ago

Creating stability for ourselves and loved ones really can be demanding and force us into positions that make impossible to be as ethical as we'd want to be.

That said it is crazy how many people in the "first world" view themselves in that category while the demands they have are "a room and bathroom per person in the household", keeping the house 69 during the summer and 72 during the winter, a new 1000 dollar phone a year or two, a game system or two total a few k, a newer car because they're last one is just over 80k miles, several subscriptions to constant instant entertainment, etc.

Like yes, there really are people that have to beg for more hours to keep a two bed room for themselves and their kids, those people don't really have a choice. They are also the rest of us that really can just have a little less "treats" and be perfectly fine.

[-] KaChilde@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago

“Daddy, why can’t we eat dinner this week?”

Listen up sweetie, Daddy had to leave his job because they wanted him to use Claude to generate a spreadsheet. It was the only way to destroy our billionaire overlords from the inside. You’ll thank me when you’re older, now keep packing your things, we have until Friday before the landlord calls the police to forcibly evict us.

[-] wakko@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

"Daddy, why does everyone work until they die? Why is the sky filled with satellite debris? Why is the water poison? Why are there no more winters?"

"Well, Daddy needs a paycheck because Daddy was prioritizing creature comforts and sold himself into wage slavery. Daddy's been voting in favor of Corporatist entrenchment for decades. Daddy would rather have his Amazon Prime than be uncomfortable living without his consumerist devices to distract him from what his choices are doing to the planet."

"Daddy's also been selling your eyeballs to advertisers since before you could form coherent thoughts because he'd rather let the iPad babysit you than be a real parent. Daddy's too busy doomscrolling Pornhub."

[-] terabyterex@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

its silly, i use a phone but i dont want it made with child labor. there is no need to destroy the books.

[-] Monkey@piefed.social 17 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)
[-] PerfectDark@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

That and the ending (V for Vendetta) were the sections I wrote in this article. Because as soon as I saw the news, it was all I could think of :(

[-] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Any examples of those rare books?

Edit: of course not, what an absolute shit article. "If you don't dislike trashing a book you're a bad person!!!" Basically. What an ignorant idea. The article linked in the first "article" (the first contains 0 information) isn't much better, large companies buy books nobody wants, scans them and discards them.

Guess what librarians worldwide do? Well they don't scan the books before sending them for recycling.

So an overly emotional trash headline to generate that sweet anger and engagement IMO.

[-] Tim_Bisley@piefed.social 4 points 3 weeks ago

Still plenty to be pissed about though. As someone who does archiving it's still enraging because they are destroying thousands of books not for archival where you destroy one copy to provide access to all, but to copy the book, rewrite it, and sell it back to you.

There's now less copies of said book, it wasn't archived, they stole that content, and are now selling it back to you. People will then take this stolen content and act like it's something they created and then try to turn profit. It makes every copyright argument the publishers have ever made look like a joke. Why do publishing companies even exist?

[-] waveyvibes@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 weeks ago

Where did you get the idea that these were only books that no-one cared about? I re-read the article and didn't find anything where they specified the type of rare books collected, scanned and destroyed

[-] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 weeks ago

In the title of this post for starters, but even if it's true, the post is just ragebait crap.

[-] CovertOperative@piefed.zip 1 points 3 weeks ago

The first time I heard about this was from this article: https://www.srf.ch/kultur/gesellschaft-religion/jagd-auf-alte-buecher-ki-firmen-kaufen-antiquariate-leer-und-vernichten-die-buecher

A translated quote from it:

"Not rarities, but the exact opposite," the dealer reports: “What specifically was bought were nonfiction titles from 1970 onward with ISBN numbers—dusty, unsold stock that no one had wanted for years. Resale is completely out of the question: The books are worthless, and for each title only exactly one copy was purchased.”

That article still tries to frame this as "Rare antique books are going to be lost forever".

[-] waveyvibes@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 weeks ago

Thank you for pulling that up and helping to make it more clear

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[-] BouteilleBrune@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

sad dystopian sci-real story

[-] BaraCoded@literature.cafe 8 points 3 weeks ago

Ok, it really is Luigi time right fucking now.

[-] marius@feddit.org 6 points 3 weeks ago

I've read somewhere that it has to do with copyright, i.e. if you destroy the original, then it's not a copy and therefore allowed

[-] Ajen@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago

No, it's far cheaper to scan a stack of loose papers than it is to scan a bound book, that's why they're cutting the pages out. And most of the books aren't that valuable, even if they're rare. So it's an accounting decision to destroy the books.

[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

And they are providing the OCR'd text free of charge to the masses, right? Right?

[-] mangobanana@discuss.online 6 points 3 weeks ago

And the ring that kills me is how disingenious the whole ai thing is. It's not really artificial intelligence, it's basically really really fast computing. And I hate that they have named absolutely everything computer related "AI". Please, it's not fucking AI, not in the true sense of the word

[-] NewOldGuard@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago

But hey at least in return we get insecure buggy slop software and soulless facsimiles of art!

[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

Just another reminder in a planetary history of reminders of why our species fucking sucks.

[-] ExFed@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago

This is probably going to be an unpopular comment... but these articles are all super misleading. The physical books are getting destroyed, but their content is getting digitized. Is that a loss? Absolutely. But is there a benefit? Also yes.

The biggest loss is probably the fact that destroying the physical books removes them from circulation, making them essentially permanent additions to these companies' book collections.

[-] scintilla@crust.piefed.social 8 points 3 weeks ago

What is the benifit of a book being digitized for only be used for one company training their "AI". These digitized copies aren't going to be made available to humans in any way because then the company would loose the advantage they have in training data.

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[-] AuthenticSchedule@lemmus.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

Literally this is the Library of Alexandria

[-] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

If they were truely "rare" books, then the owner wouldn't have sold it to an AI company. People who collect rare books are usually very choosy about who they sell them to. Now I don't like them destroying books in general, but I suspect the word rare in this article is likely not what most people would actually call rare.

[-] katze@lemmy.4d2.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

Why is this so badly written?

[-] csolisr@hub.azkware.net 0 points 3 weeks ago

❌ Destroying the books
✔️ ...to fully digitize them
❌ ...and hoard the data in their systems

How do they manage to screw things twice in a row?

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this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2026
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