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[-] TheJesusaurus@piefed.ca 328 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

If you refund an indy game that you completed, you're a sociopath and there's no helping you. There isn't a structural system that's going to prevent that, some people are complete human garbage

[-] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 127 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It's not just the playing it, enjoying it, and then refunding it. It's the bragging about it on the fucking platform. Kind of asshole who does that. Well, that's gaming culture these days.

[-] timochka@lemmy.zip 22 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Literally the only reason I ever use YouTube other than KPop^* videos is very occasionally, if I'm bored, to watch Yahtzee's reviews. Last night I tuned in and a game I've not heard of before, Mixtape, got mentioned.

I thought "sounds curious, maybe I'll search for some full reviews of that to see what it's like"...

Ho. Lee. Hell.

There seems to be an entire genre on YouTube of absolutely godawful human beings just being fucking horrible in the guise of "game reviews". I mean, just really unpleasant people who within about 30 seconds you know would be domestic abusers if they ever met a girl. Is this the edge of the manosphere? It's absolutely revolting, whatever it is.

On the bright side, my "never, ever use YouTube for anything other than music videos" commitment is redoubled. I am so glad I'm old enough that this shit wasn't ubiquitous when I was impressionable.

[^*]: now KPop fandom is a whole other kind of mental; I take solace in mot being able to understand most of it. Ignorance is bliss.

[-] CentipedeFarrier@piefed.social 12 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I understand your desire to not use youtube, but you are missing out on The Spiffing Brit and Let’s Game it Out

If you aren't familiar, they are game breakers. Spiffing brit tends toward grand strategy games, and finds balance issues in them for a living best I can tell, and lets game it out griefs NPCs and systems to see how much abuse a game can take and what sort of tomfoolery he can manage. He tends toward very complex base building and mining type games.

Even if neither of those genres are your thing to play (they aren’t really mine), the channels are funny as hell and totally enjoyable.

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[-] VitoRobles@lemmy.today 27 points 3 days ago

How about all the people who bought it without even playing? This is a even larger number than the refunders.

This indie dev made a hit game that sold pretty well btw.

[-] janonymous@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

What about that? If they bought it, but haven't played it, yet, should they not have to pay for for it?

Or does that somehow make people buying an indie game and bragging about having fun completing the game, then refunding it afterwards, look better?

Developer Mateo Covic, who went viral for complaining that thousands of people had refunded his game after finishing it in less than two hours, says he's not actually unhappy about the number of refunds or money he lost, or even Steam's policy in general—he was merely expressing frustration with players who "bragged about having a fun time with the game and refunding it after completion."

[-] BananaLama@lemmy.ml 58 points 3 days ago

If you're planning to refund a game. Just pirate it

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[-] Pika@sh.itjust.works 90 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The people who legitimately do this are the ones who make the rest of the gamers look bad.

If you bought a game, especially for $3, played it from start to finish over the course of an hour and a half, and then bragged about it when you refunded it. You fully deserve to have your refund capability disabled.

The thing is, though, I don't really know a way that this can be implemented without allowing publishers to game the system. I do personally think that Two Hours is a little generous for the overall story because I will generally know whether or not I'm going to like a game within 35 minutes of playing.

I think a good alternative to it is have your refund window be based off of the current sale price of the game.

So for a game that's less than five bucks, you would only have somewhere between 30 minutes to an hour of a refund window.

Then for your typical indie window, which would be like fifteen to thirty dollars, you have an hour to hour and a half then your AAA title pricing of ~60, you have two or three hours.

I can understand refunding a game if it's broken on your system or just trash, but it feels real sleazy to me to spend money on a game, play it to completion, and then refund it anyway.

[-] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 37 points 4 days ago

It largely depends on the type of game. There's are plenty of games I've played where you're still in the tutorial after 2 hours. Hell, I don't think I knew if I liked EU4 until I was like 50+ hours in.

You don't need 2 hours to figure out if you like Super Meat Boy though. You'll know in less than an hour. Probably less than that.

For those who wonder how you could play a game for 50+ hours and not know if you like it; it's a grand strategy game with lots of functionally. A full game can easily be 50+ hours depending on how fast you let the game run, and your first game is definitely going to have a lot of pausing trying to figure out various functionality. First game is or two is just figuring out the basic gameplay.

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[-] aksdb@lemmy.world 30 points 3 days ago

Maybe not in this particular case: but what if you buy a game intending to get 10 hours out of it and after 1h you get greeted by the final credits. Shouldn't you not be able to refund then? (Depending on the price of course.)

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 5 points 2 days ago

That's the thing they always tell you. It isn't a mobile platform, people are prepared to pay higher prices but you need to set expectations with those prices.

If you're charging $15 for a game people are going to expect at least 10ish hours of gameplay, if it's going to be under that you want to be sub $10.

Although having said that I think I only paid £12 for Minecraft (about $15) and I'm probably thousands and thousands of hours into that.

[-] MangoPenguin 26 points 3 days ago

Depends if the game set some expectation for a 10 hour long campaign or not I'd say.

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[-] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago

Were they not aware of the refund policy when they listed their game for sale on the platform?

[-] SunshineJogger@feddit.org 42 points 3 days ago

I guess they didn't expect people to be such freeloading assholes to play their game in full and then take back their money.

That kind of dumb people are why we have to deal with huge exploitative game companies instead of having more indie devs

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[-] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 32 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

keep in mind, its partially overblown because according to the acheivements, only 7% users have actually beat the game of the people who kept it. the people who refunded shouldnt be that different than the average.

most of the people refunding are more likely people who rage quit more than people who beat the game in 2 hours

not saying its not an. ass move to refund but the people who refunded arent statisically the people who beat it.

[-] GoatSynagogue@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

Apart from the people saying that’s exactly what they did, which is what this is about.

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[-] monstoor@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago

Easy fix: have a two-hour intro video that you can't skip ;-)

[-] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 41 points 3 days ago

Kojima: "what's so special about that?"

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[-] chunes@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

According to all the statistics I have ever seen, especially from devs who've made short games, this isn't an actual problem.

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[-] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

I have to imagine this was this risk the developer should have considered when making a game shorter than the return window.

The platform shouldn’t have to intervene because the developer didn’t properly evaluate risk when releasing the game

[-] Beeen132@feddit.org 10 points 3 days ago

No understanding of art here.

[-] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago

If it’s being made for art, then who cares if it’s being returned or not. It’s being enjoyed. If you want to capitalize on your art then you need to take the trade off of it getting returned if your artistic vision is shorter than the return window

[-] DevDave@piefed.social 17 points 3 days ago

Some gaming consumers are just easily directed cattle for rage stampedes about whatever. No time for comprehension, just get the pitch forks and go burn some shit down!

Similar theme but different story was that guy who distributes a VR "mod" for various games, including Cyberpunk 2077. The nuanced part is a big chunk of it is in proprietary libraries that are independent of the games it provides VR support for. Just look at what PrayDog had to do to get VR support for just Unreal games https://github.com/praydog/UEVR/tree/master and that other guy has made a toolset that works with multiple engines. Charging at most a one time patreon fee for an unlocked copy doesn't sound that greedy.

Another one was the more muted whining that Valheim's Iron Gate has cheated everyone by doing "the bare minimum" to be Early Access and are abandoning an unfinished game with Valheim's 1.0 release. Personally I think those people are fucking insane.

Forty years ago I was at a cross roads that would have led to me being a programmer in the gaming industry. Really glad I didn't choose that as the game industry culture is absolutely exhausting.

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this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2026
349 points (100.0% liked)

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