Now the question is which is easier, convincing millions of people to vote for “anyone not a republican” or convincing a candidate to be more than “not republican”
Hey, primaries are around now. It's a great time for that!
Participate in primaries. THIS is the election you want for that.
If you are form the US, you are having your primaries by now.
Those are the ones where good people appear and need your vote to stay on the race. Go participate there, instead of complaining about the main election.
"But they'll steal the elections!!!!!"
Oh yeah? Just like all those state and special elections they've been losing by double-digit electorate shifts for the last 18 months? Including the one covering FUCKING MAR-A-LAGO???
Grow the fuck up. Get registered to vote, and when elections come round, VOTE, DAMN IT. Fascism only wins if you just give up and let it.
Exactly. I personally believe the election is going to be stolen, but nobody should fucking do the job FOR them. Voting MIGHT work, and you can still prepare for ridiculous, shortsighted guerilla fantasies after taking a day to go TRY the easy solution.
They'll try to shove you off the platform with constant negativity and trying to act like Trump is just a continuation of all the same. If you didn't care before, why do you care now?
It's not. It's different.
Both parties have the identical end goal in mind. One is just slower at it.
So for fucks sake pick the one that's slower at it so you have more time to do something about it. It's not like voting locks you out of any other actions.
I want to preface this by saying that I do vote in every election, and I think everyone should exercise their right to vote.
That being said, both parties are bad. We're in a class war, and the Democrats are just as beholden/part of the oligarchy as the Republicans are.
The Republicans are definitely worse than the Democrats. There's no question there, but what we really need is a fucking revolution.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you dumb fuck Americans should have voted for Vermin Supreme.
People deserve to vote for someone they actually support, not the least terrible option.
Stop blaming the voters.
You're not wrong, but the time to fix that is at the primary and not the general.
And yes, I'm aware the DNC has their thumb on the scale when it comes to the Democratic primary. So that means vote in your local elections too, so that there are actually progressive candidates to choose from instead of corporate-owned do-nothings.
I refuse to stop shit talking democrats, if they weren't absolutely complicit warmongers we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
I mean, both sides DO suck. But the decision being made boils down to which side you think has the best chance of leading to an eventual outcome that doesn't suck. I'm not voting for a party I like, because frankly that doesn't exist as a viable option, but I'm not going to not vote just because neither side is better than a 3/10. I'd rather the 3/10 than the 1/10.
I think there's real value in being honest about your feelings. The people who represent us need to know we think they suck. The people around us need to feel like others have the same struggles we do. The space for nuance does exist.
Your frequent reminder from the local queer, leftist furry that if "voting didn't work," Republicans and billionaires wouldn't spend billions of dollars on voter suppression and propaganda telling you that your vote doesn't matter.
Do your part, waste billionaire money by voting anyway, by any means necessary~
Imagine the hammer is the polling box and all your solutions look like voting when see all your problems as nails.
Everyone should vote. Absolutely. Go out, do it, cast that ballot.
Voting won’t solve all of our problems. We need to go beyond just voting.
No, the point is to agitate you against an establishment that wants to prevent you from having a better choice.
Liberals who are passionately defending lesser evil electoralism before primaries have even started are either idiots in denial or moderates who don't want to talk about why their party is nearly as unpopular as Trump.
To only have two sides is the problem.
Sure, but as far as what we can control right now, let's elect some fucking Democrats please
How much longer will this be a cookie cutter answer?
Until there are enough grassroots progressive candidates to take over the democratic party the same way the tea party movement took over the republican party, and finally some progressive initiatives can pass into law, such as eliminating FPTP.
Please don't take the "just vote democrats into office" answer to mean "sit tight and do nothing but vote" when voting is really the bare minimum activism you should be doing to preserve a democratic system.
One should vote, it simply shouldn't be the end of it.
If you voted Democrat and thought you made your part, wrong. You barely made one shift towards one slightly less terrible group. This is not victory. A part of what you should do, yes. All you should do - not.
Americans are truly a lost cause if they still think voting will get them out of this.
You need to organize yesterday and actively resist in a militant way paving the way for real democratic institutions by and for the people. Yet you still fail to see that the whole system is designed to keep you ignorant, enjoying the bread and circuses until you get to make a vote that changes absolutely nothing every 4 years and then go home satisfied that you practiced your democratic rights under capitalism. And you also fail to realize the severity of the situation you're in, any other country would be rioting right now but you're out there filming shit with the hope that some magic entity will step in and save you, or complaining about it on the internet.
Wake the fuck up Americans, for the sake of the rest of the world and yourselves as well.
As a lifelong Independent, this post can F all the way off.
Yes, this is my civil, indoor voice.
Don't you MFing tell me not to have opinions and free will, and that I should change who I am so I don't make a bunch of establishment Dems that genuinely don't care if I'm alive or dead have bad feels. Maybe the Dems should Fing field people that don't gobble billionaire scroat like they invented it.
And Democrats can maybe, just once in a while, not happily fundraise and capitulate and do the policy strategy version of pump and dump schemes around the central point of "hey, we're not the Nazis, we're the mildly annoying guys that whimper when Nazis do Nazi shit, but do eventually give them everything they want. So it's Nazi shit FAST or Nazi shit less fast with some of us around :D"
"Both sides suck" posts should encourage anyone with guts to see how much of the country wants a god damned set of independent candidates or even, (shudder) another MFing option between Shibag A and XXXL Shitbag B. People need to shed the chains of both parties and run at the local level. Give both sides a fucking scare.
Dear Americans, voting for Democrats will get you nowhere, too. I know this is hard, but you will have to start a revolution or vote for a third party in an unprecedented coordinated effort.
Even if we DO vote, we still get Republicans. They just wear a different color and use a different letter.
That’s just what a Republican would say to potential Democratic voters 🤔
No, that's what a leftist would say who recognizes that there can be no progress for the working class by continuing to enable the capitalist elite.
Damn you really blame people for not choosing between Moloch or Baal.
A lack of good options in the general is a sign of poor turnout in primaries.
One of Propagandas goals is to get you to give up. Uncovering truths and doing research is hard according to Josh Johnson, if it was easy more of us would do it instead of watching memes. Propaganda is designed to flood you with so much crap that you question everything and then give up looking for the truth because its hard. Ai has not helped this.
If you have a problem with the truth, that's a you problem. You can disagree with a course of action, but if truthful criticism of Dear Leader makes someone The Enemy to you, you're much closer to fascists than you'd like to admit.
No. Just no. The truth is still the truth, and saying the truth doesn't mean you are trying to do anything but say the truth. Both sides should be banned from holding political office or any involvement in the political process. Clean flush.
And then when you wake up from the dream world where both parties a completely rebuilt, you need to vote for your actual choices.
If the Republicans never have a chance of winning again, it becomes much easier for the actual progressives to differentiate themselves from the more centrist Democrats.
If you don't vote then you don't get to complain until the next election.
You refused to have a say and now you have to live with the consequences. No bitching.
And you should do that in all elections. Small and big.
Just a reminder that liberals will never be on the side of the revolution. They're always going to say that voting for them is what matters. It's all a sham to prevent you from actually doing anything.
This is lib bullshit. Voting is how you keep the Epstein class in power.
Prove me wrong and nominate an anti-genocide candidate.
People who won't vote for the Democrats don't necessarily see the world the same way as people who do vote D. Really go have a look at https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
There are ethical lines some people actually won't cross, e.g. voting for the Ds who make anthropogenic climate change worse and so are causing a mass extinction, sell weapons to people actively committing a genocide, further an economic system that rewards narcissistic sociopaths and punishes ethical people, ...
Go look at the linked graph above again. You may not agree, but understand that there are people who do, and to get these people to vote for the Ds, you need to convince them why voting for omnicidal, genocidal, greedy sociopaths is the right thing to do. The "lesser evil" argument doesn't work on them, because if you look at the linked graph above and compare the distances between the parties, and understand there are ethical lines between the Ds and leftists/socialists/Greens/etc. they won't cross; then it means vastly better arguments need to be put forth. Yes the Rs are psychopaths and openly racist, but compared to the slightly less (compare the distances on the graph) sociopathic Ds, then
“It is infinitely better to vote for freedom and fail than to vote for slavery and succeed.” - Eugene V. Debs, Appeal to Reason, 1900-10-13.
“Wage-labor is but a name; wage-slavery is the fact.” - Eugene V. Debs, The Socialist Party and the Working Class 1904-09-01
If there are no ethical options, then activity making the world more evil isn't something these people will do.
Every time I say something like that a self proclaimed intellectual comes around and tells me how he couldn’t vote for Kamala because he is totally not a Russian bot and he had to stop Kamala from starting a war in the Middle East.
As an American that's never not voted, I don't understand these fucking assholes.
Genuinely... Fuck them. We're fucked because of the people that don't vote, not because of the minority of insane MAGA's.
The winner of our last presidential election was actually "didn't vote".
The problem is both sides ARE bad. Both ... two. The two party system is broken, our Constitution was not built to handle political parties and George Washington says he regrets they were not banned in the Constitution. He said that political parties would destroy the USA in his farewell speech to the nation. Independent parties are the only noncorrupt option ... but they are not viable in a two party system.
STAAAAP!
Yes, the elections are essentially broken. (I'm surprised that nobody has brought up Citizen's United.)
But that's the point. Make them work to rig the elections, don't just give up. The far right has spent billions (trillions?) to cast doubt on the system, to crush the democratic process.
If they are working that hard to undermine it, then there must be at least a shred of integrity left somewhere in that system. Voting in fair and free elections is the only thing that scares MAGA. If they are that frightened, shouldn't you get your ass out there and vote?
Voting is about the lowest form of political influence (besides doing nothing). If all you do is vote then you're left with candidates determined by others. You can (and should) still vote for the least worst option of those that have a chance of winning, because not voting effectively means you approve of all options. The only thing you can vote against in an election where one of two options will win is one of those options, by voting for the other. Anything else won't matter.
If you want better options to vote for, you need to be politically active besides voting, actively working to establish better options, tell the established parties what candidates and policies you want them to support, support smaller parties that represent your interests better, and that might slowly shift it into a direction more to your liking.
Of course that's much harder that doing nothing at all and proudly telling yourself that that will somehow delegitimize the system - the system doesn't care. Election results are shown only as a proportion of valid votes, anyone else has no influence on the result at all.
I like how people here are trying to have a discussion of whether or not voting third party, or voting at all, is necessary when there are currently concerns (and investigations) of Trump and the Epstein class rigging this last election in the first place. I should also remind everyone that there were similar concerns when Bush first got elected back in 2000. How sure are we that we can rely on voting if that is indeed true?
Furthermore-- I voted for Harris, but I am fucking sick and tired of voting for Democrats. Fucking sick and tired! They are fucking useless. I voted Democrat these last four presidential elections and it is these Democrats and the party as a whole who helped usher in Trump. It has done nothing but cause problems. Biden carved the pathway for both Trump and Netanyahu to carry on the genocide in Palestine and now in Lebanon. He helped the Israeli government go on this psychotic imperialistic crusade against others like Iran and very soon Cuba. And Greenland. Harris vowed that she would continuing working with the Israeli government if she was elected, and she vowed to have the ICE budget expanded also. Both sides ARE fucking bad. Democrats have done jack shit to try to impeach Trump or 25th amendment him so far despite the child sex trafficking through ICE arrests, nor the outright kidnapping and murders of American citizens on the streets and in ICE encampments. Nor for kidnapping leaders of other countries. The list goes on. Just impeachment alone.
Most Democrat congressmen are financed by AIPAC just like the Republicans. Whether anyone is liking or not, the Democrats are 1,000% enabling the Republicans, and even if Harris won this last election, we will be dealing with the potentiality that the Republicans would come back in full force by mid-terms or general elections anyway.
I understand that voting blue no matter who is a way for people to feel as though they are doing something. I still encourage voting. But voting blue no matter who, no matter how bad or how mediocre the candidate is, is clearly not working at all.
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