1076
We're just doing the whole routine with the underground railroad and civil war all over again, aren't we. This country is so stupid.
Except this time, the postal service is involved and it's illegal to interfere with the mail. It's a federal offense. State laws do not affect that. So any woman in, say, Texas who gets these pills will be doing so without risk to herself. And now there's no risk to the doctor either if she gets it from one in California.
They can’t interfere with them getting it, but can prohibit usage right?
How can they prove that?
"Friend" or family member tipping off police and/or subpoenas for electronic messages are two ways that spring to mind, but those can be prevented if people are vigilant
People need to learn not to allow conservatives in their lives, including family members.
Exactly, and if you have a fundamentalist Christian friend who seems like a nice person (if you volunteer in animal shelters or food banks or the like you run into a lot of these), know that they will get you arrested without a moment's doubt and just pray extra hard for you while you're sitting in a jail cell
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True. If people aren't careful, they could get caught. But you could say that about weed in Texas too.
Exactly, it's a complete disgrace that people will have to be mindful of this crap just to get the reproductive healthcare they need, but if the government can't stop a people from transporting big old stinky plants on a regular basis good luck stopping people from delivering a few pills on the occasions when they're needed
The Polish government developed a way using tandem mass spectrometry article
I guess theoretically they could do that, but I doubt deep-cut Republican Texas could afford it.
Amazingly, there’s always no funds for relief, plenty for oppression.
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There's still the wrinkle of sending prescription drugs through the mail is heavily regulated, the average doctor or pharmacist isn't allowed to just put the pill in an envelope without committing mail fraud.
I assume the doctor is still not able to visit those states (or another state without this law) without the fear of being arrested? Such a shitty country we live in.
It's all about State's Rights.
...To deny your freedoms.
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The California Catholic Conference opposed the law, arguing the state is “engaging in ideological colonization against states and citizens that do not want abortion.”
Fucking bring it. California is one of the largest economies in the world. I'd like to see states like Louisiana and Alabama try to fuck with us. Texas might be able to go toe-to-toe, but they're about the only abortion-banning state that'd even stand a chance.
FUCK THE PEOPLE WHO VOTE FOR THESE MONSTERS.
"Gavin is a Republican! Corporate bro!"
But he's our corporate shill.. still progressive AF for the big leagues. That's the game. He's better at it than most Dems on the national stage.
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Based
While this is great postering; this is a law that will undoubtedly be ignored due to the rendition clause of the US Constitution.
Edit: after looking into this some more there is an argument that if someone has conclusively never been in the requesting during the offense, another state cannot request rendition, see Hyatt v People (1903). It was reaffirmed in Michigan v. Doran (1978).
Based on precedent there has to be no evidence whatsoever that a person was present in the state. It cannot be a question of fact or alibi for the crime itself. Ie., if a state asserts the person was present in the state and the person asserts they were not as an alibi defense, the person would still need to be extradited and can assert the alibi defense in their trial.
I think based on this reading my initial take was wrong, but I am not so sure how true this is with some more modern enactments like the Uniform Criminal Extradition Act.
Here is a law review article that discusses related issues in more depth: https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1558&context=clr#:~:text=Without%20intervention%2C%20anti%2Dabortion%20states,the%20people%20that%20support%20them.
That covers people who commit a crime in state A and then flee to state B. It's not clear whether it's even possible for a citizen of state B to commit a crime in state A without entering state A.
I am by no means a Trump supporter but I believe what’s good for the goose is good for the gander; Trump was never present in Georgia leading up to the electoral count as far as I am aware, yet he is charged with RICO under state law in Georgia. Do you think he could have simply fought rendition to Georgia?
He made a phone call to Georgia, to influence the Secretary of State to commit fraud. That's a crime. The victims are the citizens of the State of Georgia. If I shoot you over the state line am I innocent of a crime in your state? No.
This isn't the 1800s where you flee over the county line and they can't pursue you.
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Could he? Yes. But in a conspiracy all participants are equally legally responsible for each overt act.
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It's not at all clear that this would violate the Extradition Clause or Extradition Act which implements it. The offense in question isn't illegal in California and doctors practicing in California won't have fled from the States that may seek to bring charges.
This law will give California governors another reason to ignore requests from other States, requiring them to try their luck with a writ of Mandamus from federal courts.
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It’s very literally interstate commerce when presented in that fashion.
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the US Constitution specifically empowers Congress “to regulate commerce with foreign nations, among states, and with the Indian tribes” (emphasis mine).
If that doesn’t satisfy someone’s definition of “Constitutional Originalism”, then I don’t know what will.
Suffice to say: all of these regressive laws around trying to prosecute abortion-related travel and transport of goods that are coming from the legislatures of those states are absolutely unenforceable and categorically bullshit.
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Good, states have no business removing abortion rights it should strictly be a federal matter.
it show be strictly a ~~federal~~ personal matter
They send us their illegal immigrants. We send them abortion pills.
Interesting times we live in.
I wonder which laws are going to get struck down first, the ones trying to criminalize things outside their state or the ones decriminalizing things.
Idk about getting struck down, but it seems like laws inside your jurisdiction are going to stand in a way laws outside don't really. Where it gets tricky is going to be swaths of the country where certain people can't go for fear of being arrested. Feels like a loosening of federalism to me and more like different countries in a way.
yeah imagine if your flying from new york to california and your plane has to divert to texas due to an emergency
Im pretty sure this is federally illegal/unconstitutional. You cant undermine a states law ex post facto as per section 10.
Feel free to correct me if im wrong
This law reminds me of a similar issue before the civil war. From what I remember, the issue was that northern states were forced to send people that escaped enslavement back to the south. The north was sick of that crap, stopped, and the south got upset and formed their failed cessation.
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I disagree and here's why.
The 10th amendment does not constrain the state governments, and this is not an ex post facto law.
States are not required to enforce the laws of other states, and generally do not have any legal standing to challenge other states' laws.
It is generally not legal for a state to prosecute someone for actions that took place outside of their jurisdiction.
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this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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