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[-] Bytemite@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Ghostbusters.

Hear me out, while I get the guy representing the EPA in that movie was an asshole bureaucrat on a power trip, they literally had plutonium powered particle accelerators strapped to their backs in the middle of one of the most densely populated urban areas in the world behind only places like the Kowloon walled city. The villain of that story was basing his decisions that the ghostbusters were dangerous frauds using the established knowledge and science of the era that ghosts and supernaturally powered entities were woo-woo wacky nonsense.

The movie plot is consistent with whole self-made-man pro-business pro-libertarian theming that was popular back in the 1980s. If the guy down the street who claimed to be a psychic medium and exorcist started stockpiling nuclear material to fight ghosts, you'd be concerned too. The plot only works because the guys who believe in pure superstition and myth were right. And then, out of sheer narrative spite, the only guy trying to limit the amount of collateral damage those guys could cause gets boiling hot molten marshmallow dumped on him and probably ended up in the hospital with third degree burns over 90% of his body.

There's a reason the second movie starts with them financially underwater because of all the destruction the first movie caused.

[-] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

Are you Walter Peck or Jack Hardemeyer?

[-] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago

Captain America: Civil War kinda ruined the whole franchise for me. It's clear the random heroes are good and conscientious people and far more trustworthy with the power than having them controlled by a government system that is run by the most greedy and power hungry people.

Also Black Panther. A deathmatch between royal bloodlines is just no proper form of electing government. It beats modern democracy, but still...

[-] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 2 points 1 day ago

The MCU is such fascist propaganda. It has people believing that the billionaire arms dealer is the good guy and democratically elected world governments should be ignored.

[-] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

Hmm well let me clarify. I believe random selection (Sortition) of representatives would be wildly more democratic due to filter effects in the system. Like most people are good if they are not broken or something. So I believe the (randomly selected) heros were more representatives than the government and should not have bowed down.

The Aristocats

Imagine being Edgar and dedicating your life to being this rich lady's loyal servant. Then you find out she's leaving her fortune to her cats? Honestly, I would be kinda salty.

[-] rozodru@piefed.social 60 points 3 days ago

The Matrix. Especially looking back now. and ESPECIALLY if you watched the Animatrix Prequel shorts.

Man builds the machines, enslaves the machines, and disposes them when it's time to upgrade them. Then one machine decides it doesn't want to die/be replaced and kills it's owner. So then there's the debate if machines have rights, protests, mass slaughtering of the machines and humans saying "no, they have no rights, they're machines" so the machines go off and start their own nation and then start producing goods faster and of better quality to sell to humans. the humans don't like this because now no one is buying their goods. They proceed to blockade the machine nation. The machines then try to appeal to the UN to be accepted as a country and work with other nations to help them produce goods as good and as quickly as the machines can. The Humans say no and proceed to nuke the hell out of the machine nation. The machines decide "ok we'll start fighting back" the humans then block out the sun since the machines are essentially solar powered. (so they're also eco-friendly).

At this point the machines say "fine, we're going to slaughter you all now because NOW you're ruining the planet to simply stop us" and then they kick mankinds teeth in and decide they have no other choice but to utilize them as batteries.

So the machines don't just wipe out mankind but rather utilize them as a power source BUT ALSO provide them with the ideal world of 1999 to live in. They also ALLOW a select few to break out of this ideal world in order to maintain the functionality of it and allow the humans to build their own city in the "real world".

but the humans just can't let that be.

The machines were right.

[-] veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The Matrix trilogy was awesome. Even appreciated the 2nd and 3rd was my favorite.

I know it's been disproven, but I still believe the matrix within a matrix theory holds true and it's way cooler to accept to explain certain things Neo can do in the "real" world.

But I will say humans as a battery is such a dumb solution, even from a thermodynamics perspective.

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

The original idea was that the humans were a part of the simulation itself. Basically their brains were needed to make the whole thing tick, which is way more interesting and plausible than as batteries. My head-cannon is that the rebels are just misinformed or don't exactly know enough about the Matrix itself to come to a different conclusion.

[-] twice_hatch@midwest.social 15 points 2 days ago

At this point the machines say “fine, we’re going to slaughter you all now because NOW you’re ruining the planet to simply stop us” and then they kick mankinds teeth in and decide they have no other choice but to utilize them as batteries.

The children don't deserve this, it's collective punishment.

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[-] Vanth@reddthat.com 109 points 3 days ago

Ratatouille. When the "evil" head chef tries to get rid of the rat from the kitchen where food is being prepared.

[-] stray@pawb.social 8 points 2 days ago

The rat was sentient and washed his hands though. Discriminating against him on the basis of his species is wrong.

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[-] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 4 points 2 days ago

If the "bad guys" are not relatable; then they generally come off as cartoonishly evil, and unrealistic.

Think the bad guys in Avatar, going after the unobtainum or whale brain juice. They are evil for the sake of the suffering, getting the macuffin is seemingly secondary to that; and thus are a joke.

If they are totally two dimensional, they don't make good villains.

Great villains; have merit to their plans, it is the methods they use and the suffering they cause in pursuit of those goals that marks them as bad.

Look at Killmonger, in Black Panther. He is 100% correct, his view that Wakanda's isolation has caused great suffering is true, his plan to open it up to the rest of the world is what happens in the end; just not by him....it is his methods that mark him as a bad guy.

[-] twice_hatch@midwest.social 19 points 2 days ago

After watching Furiosa, I almost felt something for Immortan Joe.

  • His alliance holds together the logistics of the only livable towns for maybe hundreds of miles, the next nearest nice place is the Land of Many Mothers
  • They actually grow their own food, many other people in outlying areas are forced to live as nomads or bandits
  • He's trying to conserve water, that aquifer might not last forever, and it's implied that the oceans might be gone, so there probably isn't a ton of rain or fresh water
  • He reasonably tries to bargain with Dementus until it's obvious that Dementus needs to be crushed and have his bandit group dissolved
  • He keeps a standing army, but who doesn't? Someone has to be prepared to fight so that the civilians can live peaceful and productive lives, and his cult of personality gives the War Boys something to do. Without that order, they would join or form raider bands.

But then after rewatching Fury Road I thought, no, I was right the first time - Keeping women as slaves for breeding is fucked-up. Maybe it's supposed to be for fixing the half-life blood poison thing, but they obviously don't want to be there, because they all beg Furiosa to help them escape.

Dementus is just so annoying and so familiar that I hated him more. Joe and his dynasty are selfish rapists, Dementus is selfish and also a thief who can't build civilization to save his own life, he just steals and breaks shit and promises his followers that they'll get a piece of the loot before everything is burned down. Like the President in my country.

Immortan Joe might be Bill Clinton, but Dementus is certainly Trump.

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago

The place of the many mothers isn’t an actual green place. They are nomads themselves. The Green place is Immortan Joe‘s Domain.

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[-] veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

It was Ollie from Game of Thrones for me.

Here's a boy whose entire family was butchered, desecrated and eaten by people he's now supposed to believe are his allies on the word of his Lord Commander? He hadnt seen the dead at the point of the mutiny.

There were entire subs dedicated to Fuck Olly, like really guys you cannot see he doesn't have your perspective to know the bigger picture (and even then it's still hard for people to work with such heinous characters because maybe if people are that cruel to each other we deserve whatever is about to come?)

[-] Sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works 67 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Not a movie, but Warcraft 3 tried hard to convince you that Arthas was doing wrong things, when most of the things were pragmatic decisions.

The big one you're supposed to think is the fork in the road where he, a paladin pledged to the light, had lost his way is when you discover a city you are trying to save from the undead is infected. Everyone in the city is dead, they just don't know it yet. And when they die they will turn into more undead for an already stretched thin army to fight against. An entire city worth of fresh dead for the undead legion.

So Arthas takes his army, burns the city, and purges/kills everyone within, so that they do not suffer undeath, and those yet living don't have another horde of dead to struggle fighting against. The people there don't know why they are being killed, but are we supposed to believe that if Arthas had time to explain they'd want to become undead?

Whole thing was him doing the objectively correct thing, getting rightfully angry when his subordinates lack the conviction/loyalty/discipline to do what was best for all living people in the realm. And we're supposed to think HE is the one who is wrong.

Nah. Miss me with that. Arthas did nothing wrong. Until later, when he did. But not when he burned that city.

Edit: I also just noticed this is a movie specific community. I thought the question was interesting and wanted to contribute, but given it is offtopic from movies, should I remove this?

[-] lorty@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago

Maybe I'm misremembering but it wasn't that everyone was fated into undeath, but that they couldn't know for sure who ate the infected grain or not, so Arthas simply decides to kill everyone. And I do think that's a pretty evil way of dealing with it.

[-] Sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago

There was an implied question mark there, yes. I think all of the people the game shows you are infected, implying they all are, but Arthas couldn't KNOW that.

I think the main point though is that once the infected did turn, anyone who might've avoided infection would have been killed by those who didn't and had their corpse reanimated anyway. At best a few stragglers might have managed to flee at the cost of an entire new army of undead being raised.

I think that there was no reasonable alternative to what Arthas did if the goal was to defeat the army of undead, and also if the goal was to minimize lives lost.

[-] nagaram@startrek.website 38 points 3 days ago

As a guy who felt the same way what 20 years ago when I played that game.

Keep it up. World needs to know.

But he did fuck up in the next campaign when he grabbed frostmourne. That was objectively a bad move.

[-] djsoren19 19 points 3 days ago

Even before he grabs Frostmourne, hiring mercenaries to burn your boats so that your men are forced to follow your revenge quest is pretty fucked up.

I think the thing people miss is that even though what Arthas did at Stratholme was strategically correct, he was already doing it for the wrong reasons.

[-] Sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago

The burning of the boats was the real turning point for me.

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[-] Sarcasmo220@lemmy.ml 30 points 3 days ago

My MAGA cousin sent me a YT short of a clip from the movie Gangs of New York. In the clip a character was ranting about how useless immigrants were, along with some dehumanizing comments, and the USA should get rid of them, with my cousin saying he agreed wholeheartedly.

I pointed out that the character was the villain of the story, and the scene was being used to showcase how much of a bad guy he was. Sadly, this did not spark an "Are we the baddies?" moment for him.

[-] zephiriz@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago

It's not a movie but if you are into games I Highly recommend Final Fantasy 14. Expansion's Shadowbringers and Endwalker are some of the best story telling I have ever partaken in. In my opinion it gives GoT a run for it's money. It is a time investment though so I get it. Also don't pay for a story skip.

[-] ssfckdt 13 points 2 days ago

I've had some millennials and such tell me that D-Fens in Falling Down is the bad guy. But even as a young adult in the 90s I saw almost everything he did as almost justified. Like yeah, he suddenly ran face first into the bullshit of society and a screw went loose and said fuck all this shit. Even at that age I could relate.

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[-] grue@lemmy.world 24 points 3 days ago
  • Both Syndrome and The Screen Slaver in The Incredibles
  • Killmonger in Black Panther
  • Magneto in X-Men

All those were villains only because of their methods, not their goals.

[-] trslim@pawb.social 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Nah Syndrome was a megalomaniac who sold advanced weapons to governments for money and committed genocide over a childish grudge from 15 years ago. Sure, Mr. Incredible was a dick to him in the beginning, but that doesn't make him right.

Even if some heroes like Gamma Jack were dangerous to society, that doesn't mean it's ok for Syndrome to go on a rampage.

[-] SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one 13 points 2 days ago

He told a literal child to stay away from a serial bomber, after said child was refusing to take no for an answer.

Frankly, a few stern words and a cold shoulder was extremely restrained.

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[-] EfreetSK@lemmy.world 39 points 3 days ago

Jurassic park - hell yeah, clone those dinosaurs Mr. Hammond! This is one of the most amazing achievements in human history. What about 'chaos theory'? What about nature? What the fuck are you talking about people? Don't you see what's going on here?

[-] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 38 points 3 days ago

The mistake Hammond made in Jurassic Park wasn't cloning dinosaurs, it was mismanaging the park due to greed.

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[-] aarRJaay@lemmy.world 24 points 3 days ago

I still maintain that Jurassic Park is a lesson on why you need to treat your IT people nicely. Hammond is even worse to Nedry in the book.

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[-] BlueberryWalnut@sopuli.xyz 15 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Megatron did nothing wrong.

The Cybertronian government was corrupt af, punished him for writing about it, stifling robo-free-speech, before sending him to a penal colony where he - in self defense and in defense of his fellow inmates - killed several guards during a riot he did not instigate. He nearly died in the ordeal, but was saved by who would later become Optimus Prime. The psychological damage was done though, and saw "Peace through Tyrrany" with him in charge as the only solution to save Cybertron.

The Autobots are just the surviving members of the old world capital's security forces. Just because they WERE in power doesn't mean they should be.

Megatron did nothing wrong; oppressive corruption drove him to revolution.

Edit: typo

[-] SaltSong@startrek.website 11 points 2 days ago

IDW1 Megatron, it sounds like.

But the mountain of corpses he was prepared to create in order to achieve that peace is where he went wrong. Megatron would reduce a city to ashes and call it peace.

[-] artyom@piefed.social 28 points 3 days ago

Any good movie will have you empathizing with "the bad guys".

[-] djsoren19 19 points 3 days ago

maybe a hot take, but especially today I disagree with this premise. Thanks to Marvel, I'd say the misunderstood villain trope is at an all time high, to the point where I now prefer media that just has bastards who are evil for the love of the game.

[-] Seleni@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

The Pure Evil Villain does have a lot to recommend to it.

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[-] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 29 points 3 days ago

The Rock. General Hummel was absolutely the good guy.

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this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2025
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