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Nazism and communism are completely different concepts.
... different totalitarian concepts.
Wrong. While a large number of communist labelled regimes were in fact totalitarian regimes (whether they actually were communist is another debate), totalitarianism is not inherent to communism (and it can be argued that a democratic foundation is necessary for communism or that communism is the democratisation of labour). However, fascism is characterised by (among others) an extreme form of authoritarianism (i.e. totalitarianism) that is structured after the Führerprinzip.
Lots of things can be argued in academics. The largest communist experiments have been totalitarian. The idea that democracy is a core component to a communist society is now more commonly referred to as democratic socialism.
Democratic socialism isn't socialism, except with democracy lmao.
Great argument, once again. By the virtue of simply disagreeing with me, you've proven yourself smarter. Wonderful job.
Instead of doubling down, why don't you do some research on Venezuela to understand what context democratic socialism applies to, or literally just look up the structure of any communist party (Hint: its democratic)
Looks at the CCP...
Wow, it's so Democratic, I say nervously.
Well they regularly act in the interest of the people against the interest of the bourgeois.
But maybe they mostly do what the people want because they just want power and their system rewards that.
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You're doing the same both sides shit as the fascist mayor.
Total control by the working class is not the same as total control by the bourgeois we live under or the total control by fascist weirdos the bourgeois settle for when their system is in crisis.
You are acknowledging total control in both systems, but are arguing against the word totalitarian to describe them. What is your actual argument?
That totalitarian and authoritarian are dumb words because they equate the working class being in control with the bourgeois being in control. Its as silly as saying we need a healthy balance between tyranny and democracy.
Do you think that you specifically, as a worker, would have more power under totalitarian communism? Your voice and your opinions would be taken into account by the unaccountable leaders? Do you really think you would even be allowed to critique party policy?
unaccountable leaders
I would simply not vote for a leader who I didn't like.
Your voice and your opinions would be taken into account
The average Chinese or Cuban feels more represented than the average American, in Vietnam it seems like the more rural areas feel strongly represented, while the urban residents are more likely to feel they have no power and the whole system has become rotten.
A few years ago, Cuba had a referendum on a new constitution. After years of local discussions, revisions, and more discussion, they came up with a document that most everyone agreed with, it passed with over 90% support.
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Looking at the Soviet take in the topic: both were totalitarian, though. I wouldn't call them "two sides of the same coin" as that mayor, but each on their own used a totalitarian approach to achieve their goals.
In the end it won't matter much to you if you're locked up because you have the wrong religion or because you are the wrong social class.
If I was a rich landowner in Soviet Russia or Mao's China, and I didn't want to go to jail or be made to wear a silly hat and paraded around town, I would simply not burn my crops and instead support the workers. But maybe I'm just built different.
Hm, but you wouldn't say that everyone persecuted in China or the Soviet Union deserved said persecution, would you?
No, there were definitely mistakes made, which are worth studying. I don't believe the solution is less worker control, which nearly every western perspective on any such cases aims to make.
Edit: Life and terror in Stalin's Russia is a pretty good book on the subject.
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Is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea a democracy then by your logic?
There are plenty of systems under the umbrella term of "communism," not all of which are totalitarian. If you're specifically talking about Marxist-Leninism (the Soviet and Chinese implementation) then yeah fair that sucks, but when you just say "communists" you're also including folks like council communists.
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Nazism and communism are completely different concepts.
In theory only, you are right.
But Fascism and Communism share a lot in practice though. Both use absolute rule and an authoritarian state as a mean to control populace. No democracy, rule of law, human rights.
Communism is not, by definition, authoritarian rule. Sure, a lot of examples exist where that's the case, but that's only because anything less couldn't withstand the CIA starting a coup. It isn't required, but you need something strong to resist anti-leftist governments doing everything they can to overthrow you.
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Listen, people from the former Soviet bloc, we get it, you were traumatized. But you can't just blanketly force your bad experience on the rest of us. In much of the world, the polarity of your experience was reversed. Communists were (and are) the people arguing for democracy for human rights and for liberty. And they were the people persecuted and jailed and tortured for this. Joke all you like, but it's just simply historical fact in places ranging from Spain and Greece to like Indonesia and Nepal. And in those places, the conflation of communism and Nazism as "totalitarianism" is just obscene.
In France in particular, I mean look at the tricolour: socialist ideas are part of what being French is. And this fascist mayor is doing something obscene, essentially lumping the collaborationists and the pétainistes together with the people who fought against them for a free french people.
Yes, your experiences are valid, but they are not the only ones that are valid.
Listen, people from the former Soviet bloc,
I'm confused who you're addressing your comment to. The article is about a French town. That's not the former soviet bloc.
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Ok and was the USSR democratic?
For like 10 minutes in the beginning.
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Despite strong opposition from left-wing representatives, Frédéric Masquelier, the mayor of Saint-Raphaël on the French Riviera, unveiled France's first monument to the "victims of communism" on Saturday, August 23. Masquelier, a member of the right-wing party Les Républicains, said, "Nazism and communism (...) are two sides of the same tragic coin." The monument depicts a man pushing back two massive blocks and was placed next to a memorial dedicated to the martyrs of the Resistance, many of whom were communists.
Other than the obvious "mayor is a fascist" part, why the fuck does a French town need a monument for "victims of communism"? Communist Russia and China were very brutal, but what exactly did they do that directly affected France? Surely the monument is not for the handful of French communists who lived in the USSR and were victims of various purges.
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Authoritarian gouvernements that claim to be for a certain group of people but then only enrich themselves while terrorizing the enemies of the state as well as those that they claim to represent.
The difference lies in the economic systems, the political ones are eerily similar for two ideologies supposed to be on opposite ends of the spectrum.
I'll always prefer ideologies that aim to do well but end up misused for power over ideologies that directly aim to do evil.
Nazism aims to end the "oppression" of the straight Aryan man by destroying Jews, queers and so on.
Communism aims to end the oppression of the worker by ending private property and seizing the means of production.
Even if many or all communist systems end up in violent autocratic tyranny, I'll never equate the two ideologies or their followers.
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if communism = facism then facism = communism. Does that sound even remotely sane? Dumb monument. Though frankly i cant even understand how anyone would get something like that from a wireframe guy telling about huge fish it almost caught.
For most morons in the world, the fact that the English translation of the Nazi’s name has “socialist” in it was proof enough for them.
God forbid we want to prevent the Elon musks and the Peter Thiels and even the John D Rockefellers of the world from just wrenching control from the rest of us entirely using their massively outsized wealth. You can still get a good wage and live in your bigger house running your hvac installer company or whatever, it doesn’t mean being paid in bread rations and it doesn’t mean putting people in camps, assholes.’it means The Koch brothers have no incentive to fight off solar energy so they can keep seeking you poison sludge that gives you cancer
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On a historical aspect, it does sound a bit sane. Both were used to justify similar regimes that strangled the people.
Communism can be seen as fascism by lucky liberals who dont understand we share this earth and have responsibilities to our neighbor. Communism 'removes' autonomy by making it a group effort and reducing the power of money which lets people have a degree of separation from the work and people.
Not that I agree, but people see communism as the real world attempts and not the philosophy. This is very apparent when you realize those anti communism in America tend to be Christian.
Jesus being a dude who provided free health care, food, and assistance to his neighbor. Just communist philosophy to the max. However they prefer the philosophy that he died so that we can keep sinning and would rather kill their brother than share the bread.
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russian propoganda is widespread in France it seems
"...two sides of the same tragic coin."
Well that's just a bad metaphor. Now I dislike this mayor for two reasons.
trigger.ml
This thread feels like i just sat down for some coffee and a cigarette at a corner cafe on a cool April morning in Paris, 1871...
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this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2025
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