That's nothing, I was forced to play a snake that was eating small dots and getting longer and longer.
Never liked this lumping of everyone into oversimplified "gamers" as if it's anything different besides conservatives who happen to play games.
It is always conservatives. In any hobby.
There’s a reason that particular cohort is mockingly referred to as capital-G Gamers^TM^.
Exactly.
Not just any hobby, any country. You think this country still uses fax machines and are a bunch of racists? You think that country doesn't believe in vaccines and elected a moron? You think that country is committing a genocide?
Most games don't bring the characters sexuality into it at all so I wouldn't consider 99.99% to be particularly accurate. That said I'd prefer if they left romance out of it all together. I'm equally annoyed by having to deal with it in a game regardless of which end of the spectrum it is. Just let me fight/build/solve puzzles/whatever. If I wanted to date someone I'd be doing it in real life.
Bloodborne has the greatest romance story, even a lovely wedding ceremony.
with the state of the gaming industry rn, that's gotta be the one stupidest things chuds complain about in games.
What's a straight character?
In Skyrim you can romance any of a wide variety of characters marked as "marriageable" in the game's files. That really just means the voice actor was willing to record the marriage ceremony lines. Since voice actors were reused, if a voice actor recorded their lines, most if not all of their characters would be marriageable. To marry a character, you complete a task for them that makes them call you a friend (typically a quest they give you when you first meet them). You then wear an amulet of Mara (the game's goddess of love) and speak to them. They ask if you fancy them, you say yes. They propose marriage, you go to the temple of Mara and be there the next day. During the ceremony you can say yes or no. And the game does not give two shits what your gender is. If you're a male character, you can freely marry any marriageable male character, and vice versa for females. I play female characters because I like to look at them. I'd rather look at a female than a male. And I always marry Mjoll the Lioness because she's trying to tear down the most fun guild in the game, so I move her out of town and make her a housewife. (Her quest is a lot of fun, too.)
In Fallout 4 you can romance maybe half a dozen characters? All of your companions who are not robotic or animal. One of the robots can be converted into an android you can hook up with. You can't marry any of them, and you can romance all of them. None of them care what your gender is. Many have quests you have to do, but even beyond that, you have to push up their approval rating of you, by doing things they approve of (e.g. Matt Mercer's character loves when you pick locks and steal) and by not doing things they don't like (e.g. there's a junkie girl who loves when you do drugs, until you cure her addiction, then she hates when you do drugs). Once they're romanced, you can take them to any bed for a fade-to-black sex scene (neither heard nor seen).
In Cyberpunk 2077, there are four characters you can romance and hook up with, but no marriage. Each one has a genital preference and a voice preference. So you can absolutely be trans in the game. You choose a body type (fem or masc) and a voice type (fem or masc). Depending on your choice, you get 2 people you can romance. The other two will not reach the romance stage with you no matter what.
I guess the characters in GTA are straight? I don't play bro shooters and such. Not my thing. Tomb Raider? Up in the air what Lara Croft prefers. You could take that either way. I love the Life is Strange games and those lean gay/lesbian. In the first one, Max can kiss both a girl and a guy, and it seems equal, but if you read her diary, she has no attraction to the guy, but she absolutely crushes on the girl. In the second one, the guy is absolutely gay, but the focus is on his little brother who is too young to have a sexual orientation (I think he's 8?). It's less obvious in the third one, but that girl definitely has lesbian vibes. And the fourth one is Max again.
What you are describing is a concept of the mechanically bisexual. The options as given often allow players to choose in a sandbox game whether they experience the game as a completely non-queer experience or not. It sometimes creates queerness as an option rather than a core part of an experience which rep wise is considered a step better than when all romance options in games were mandatorily heterosexual but also kind of a cop out where player choice means all characters are often Shrodinger's bi. If you want to experience say Skyrim as an almost entirely queer free experience - you can. Your choices flip that representation on and off like a lightswitch so if you have queerphobic tendencies the game doth not offend much. No one ever hits on you first.
Rep wise Gay characters are ones specifically ones where the queerness isn't optional, it's a part of the canon of the character. Straight characters often are so in fixed story narratives where they have hetero relationships and if they have brushes that look like same sex romance it's played for laughs and treated as not really an option. Since culture still sort of assumes straightness as a default if the character only ever is coded romantically by the frame of the game to be attracted to the opposite sex they can be termed a "straight character" because as a player the game's interfacing with that character's sexuality is mandatory. An example is the Prince of Persia games or the Final Fantasy series which have a romantically coded opposite sex paramours that you don't have an option not to interface with the character's sexuallity.
This is way more common in older games and fixed story franchises.
It sometimes creates queerness as an option rather than a core part of an experience
Because, surprise surprise, most non-romance games don't have romance as significant part of the game. You don't get straight tailored experience in Skyrim either. Unless you believe killing bandits or mammoths is how you romance a straight person.
kind of a cop out
This mentality is why so many gamers outside the homophobic conservative circles are pissed at game developers and groups like Sweet Baby Inc. Not cramming gender politics into a game that has nothing to do with them is not a cop out. It is good game design. Skyrim is not a romance simulator and it shouldn't be turned into one just to "be more inclusive".
Hey, just a heads up assuming "gender politics" don't matter and being upset if a character is noticeably queer - makes you a part of the homophobic conservative circles. People, irl are queer, omitting queer people from settings where they would just exist as part of the world because "they shouldn't be there" is a little queerphobic.
Conservative circles have been screaming about woke games forever just when options to have non-binary people exist at character creation or when there is one gay side character. A lot of folks in the arts, including in game development, are queer and like to make stories that didn't exist when they were growing up. Your opinion is your own but assuming it's universally considered "good game design" to force developers to exclude the things they are passionate to put in their games to appease a howling mob that is never happy even when they get what they say they want is a bit rich.
No. Not wanting to have your car stolen by a gay person does not make you a homophobe. It just makes you a normal person that doesn't want to be stolen from. Equally, wanting a game to be entertainment, not political messaging does not make you conservative.
Most people had no issue with diverse characters that are part of a game, see Life is Strange. They do when you turn a game into political PSA at the expense of the rest of the game, see Valeguard.
Ah yes, the two sexualities - political and non-political. You really aren't as far along as you think.
I can accept that you are unhappy and want your games to not make you feel uncomfortable. Gods forbid they ever be like every other form of media and actually have a message they want to convey or try anything new. I can say having something tailored specifically for you is quite nice - now that more of us actually get to experience that.
and want your games to not make you feel uncomfortable.
You are missing the point entirely. Playing as a homosexual character did not make me feel uncomfortable, even though I understand if it did for some people. Even so, not every game is for everyone. It is fine to have games focused at different audiences.
But when you hand over writing your game characters and story to groups like SBI, whose only qualification is "inclusive writing", than it destroys games for everyone and you get entirely justified backlash from gamers.
Same if you take an established franchise and change the target audience.
Unfortunately, just like you don't make distinction between the actual homophobes and people who just want good writing and game design, a lot of gamers once pissed of don't distinguish between good inclusion and forced, badly executed one. And than you get the polarized BS of today.
There's no "actual homophobes" vs " not homophobic but still unhappy that queer people and 'forced inclusion' are in a game people" - that's just different degrees of homophobia.
Games changed a bit so that they aren't all made for you specifically. Those franchises didn't belong to you and for some people those 'ruined games' are their favorite games. Everyone has studios they don't like. Not all representation is gunna be great because not all writing is going to be great but when inclusion "ruins it for everyone" in your veiw look around and ask if the people around you who are discussing it is actually a good cross section of "everyone".
There's no "actual homophobes" vs " not homophobic but still unhappy that queer people and 'forced inclusion' are in a game people"
That's the same kind of argument as saying criticizing Israeli genocide is antisemitism. There are objectively bad things done in the name of inclusion. Criticizing them is not homophobic. If you are going to pretend they are, that you are somehow above criticism just because your stated goal is noble, don't be surprised when people turn against you.
Are these "bad things in the name of inclusion" just making a game you don't like? The push against "inclusion" on a general scale has lead to real world harms because a bunch of babies can't come to terms with there being pieces of media with choices they don't like and threw a fucking tantrum. There isn't really a side anymore where railing against the harms of "inclusion" isn't propping up the arguement that minorities "earned" the actions against them by asking "too much".
People will take your words as tacit endorsement that queer people "had this coming" because a bunch of businesses responded to a body of queer theory and made some fucking games. The anti-DEI crowd is the Conservative crowd and you might be on the fringe but you aren't outside the radius.
People will take your words as tacit endorsement that queer people "had this coming" because a bunch of businesses responded to a body of queer theory and made some fucking games.
That is exactly why your stance is pissing me off so much. People like you, who don't care how their ideas impact other people as long as they are inclusive, are pushing massive amounts of people towards the conservative side of the argument. I don't think that makes those people conservative, for some reason you do. Regardless, we both agree it hurts queer people.
So was it worth it? A bunch of poorly written queer characters in games and movies in exchange for pissing off a portion of otherwise tolerant population and pushing it towards conservatism?
Was it worth it? Coming down hard on queer and telling us we're terrible people for daring tp ask for something better and throwing your lot in with the oppressors at the smallest hurdle?
Yes, deflect the question, misrepresent the issue, and blame everyone around. Just avoid any introspection.
There is no "worth it" here for the non-queer gamers in the first place. It costs them (seemingly) nothing to throw queers under the proverbial bus and oppose any inclusivity. The only thing stopping people is sympathy and goodwill. Being a decent human being. Which tends to go out of the window quickly, when you actively try to destroy what those people care about. People don't have sympathy for people that "picked a fight" with them first. They just "fight" back.
And before you pretend games are insignificant and people shouldn't do this "just because of games", remember you picked this "fight" because of representation in games as well. Can't have it both ways. Games either don't matter (in which case what are we arguing about) or they do.
Gamers care about games. They have always pushed back hard against people messing with their games, whether it is "concerned parents" (religious conservatives), queers, or payment processors. If you believe that it is just homophobia, you are deluding yourself.
So I ask you again, is it really worth it to push things like SBI, that produce objectively bad games for everyone, knowing it will destroy sympathy and goodwill you have with gamers?
You don't have to answer here, just think about it. Because you can't expect understanding and sympathy from others if you are not trying to understand and sympathise with them as well.
there are surprising amount of incels in many games, and its the one that are trumpers or at least suppor tthem.
they do the same thing with movies and shows, constant complaining about race swapping, genders swapping, "traditional roles" not being adhered to.
Some of the negative reviews for Eternal Strands over on Steam are hilarious. Because the guys that don't outright hate being forced to play as a woman take issue with the lack of het romance options. Specifically with having to choose between the "bishie elf" or a "giant blue walrus-bear".
And they also feel that the walrus-bear romance is less emotionally impactful than the other options.
Would be nice if you could play a gay dude. It feels like most lbgtq representation is only women
Honest question, can anyone actually name a mainstream game where the main playable character is canonically and explicitly portrayed as gay?
I honestly can’t even think of one.
Yes, Life is Strange and The Last of Us. Pretty major games
In baldurs gate 3 people of the same gender certainly hit on you. Basically all romancible characters have player characters as their sexual orientation
The MISSING: J J Macfield and the Island of Memories is a great one.
Ending
Psyche. Though much of the dialog and written messages could lead you, like myself, to believe Macfield is a closeted lesbian undergoing community/family abuse for her quiet obsessions with a girl...it's actually the less common form of LGBT. Macfield is a closet trans woman; much of the game's horrific bodily mutilation themes take a stand-in for the dysphoria of being uncomfortable in her own masculine body. Of course, many of the same types who'd retch at a gay protagonist would throw up at the idea of being someone they didn't identify with - which ironically is exactly what the game is teaching you.
last of us?
I dunno, most games the sexuality of the protagonist is completely irrelevant, and in those cases id tell both sides to stop whining or just play a different game
how dare you stating facts
I like to play games that let you customize your characters. I usually avoid all games that force me to play as anyone but myself in that universe. I think all games should let you choose who you want to be and who you want to be with if romance is an option.
Kojima's got this one right. Every game has at least one gay character. You, the player.
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