Cool. You go first, asshole. >:(
(Not you, OP, you're cool.)
Cool. You go first, asshole. >:(
(Not you, OP, you're cool.)
Well, we do not know. OP may actually be the new secretary of commerce.
The factory jobs that existed in post-war America would be a vast improvement over the current service economy, but those jobs don’t exist anymore. Union jobs with high pay, benefits, retirement after 20 years, etc. Those are not the factory jobs they’re looking to create.
Factories are mostly automated now anyway. Rebuilding US manufacturing will not only take years but it will be done in a way that minimizes the actual jobs created. They’ll also still have to compete with factories all over the world where the currency is worth much less and the global price of the end product reflects that.
Post-war America had a strong domestic market and middle class that could afford to buy all the things American manufacturing built. Americans are now buying groceries on layaway and waiting for the sickness or car trouble or new Trump policy that makes them homeless.
And those jobs weren't good because they were in a factory, they were good because they were union.
Still, safety standards were far from ideal at that time
The reality is that the job is kind of irrelevant. We had a manufacturing economy then, and a service based economy now, but the real difference between today and back then were wage strength and social parity. Of course pensions existed too, but still.
Back in the day one man could make enough to support a family on a relatively entry level skill level income. Today one person can hardly afford rent by themselves anywhere in the US for the same skill level of work.
Instead of paying people any more than absolutely necessary, we pay shareholders. No pensions, let alone benefits for a lot of people.
We need taxes on the wealthy and higher wages, if not legally mandatory profit sharing schemes for all businesses
Preach! I have an advanced degree in a technical field and I earn (adjusted for inflation) about 75% of what my father did in the same industry doing similar work without even a GED. The real punch to the gut is I live in a high cost of living area while he worked in a very low cost of living area. Thanks, capitalism!
Factory jobs used to consist of one person being able to move about and do various jobs. I may be misremembering, but I believe it was Ford (who was not exactly a great person, go search) who stuck each individual in one place doing one minute part of an overall job. Having worked in a couple of factories, one of which was very well paid, it was mind- crushingly boring. And 1/2 hour meals with coworkers was sniping and backbiting other coworkers. I liked repairs better because it was variable, and I got to go to storage and look for things so I could move away from my station.
QA was probably the most soul-crushing, except for that one factory, that didn't pay well, had everyone on mandatory 7 days, 8+ for about two months at the time my supervisor tried to write me up for being absent the days with the flu, with a doctor's note. I walked off the job that day and was hired at a nearby competitor the next day, and given a start bonus, told to come in the following Monday. I loved that super, the pay was great, but it still was not great.
They say factory jobs but really they mean mining/oil towns, where everything is controlled by the mining/oil companies that still exists in some parts of Africa and Latin America.
They'll enslave every last person on the planet if you let them. You have to fight back, or that's your future. That's everyone's future.
That’s rich coming from a group of people who haven’t collectively worked a single day in their lives.
YOU AND YOUR FAMILY FIRST, ASSHOLE.
The USSR had lifetime factory jobs, too.
The USSR didn't have any limits to choosing an employment since shortly after WW2, what are you talking about? By the late 70s, around 10% of positions in the economy were vacant and there was full employment, and people weren't forced to work anywhere. The average unemployment duration was 15 days.
Please, what's your source on your claim?
Tankie spotted
Bro, shut the fuck up if that’s all you’re going to add to the conversation Jesus fucking Christ dude
Please, what’s your source on your claim?
Tankie spotted
Average interaction.
So if I wanted to change jobs or quit a job to go into higher education, do you know if that was possible, how hard was it to do? Because available positions does not equal job mobility, as you need permission from the factory manager and the state and those are harder to get when qualified workers are scarce.
Yeah you and your kids and their kids... All slaving away in poor conditions, at the same time.
No retirement for the old. Child labor. Shitty conditions with zero worker protections. Low pay to keep you in poverty. All while the rich sit on their lazy fat asses like the parasites they are...
He means while they're still kids btw
Ok, so a few points, from a lifelong industrial OEM technician:
First of all, there's nothing wrong with factory jobs IF your employer takes care of its workers, that's a big "if" but one all the world's workers should take care of, since manufacturing is of course one of the biggest areas of employment and it's not going away anytime soon.
My job, working for an equipment manufacturer, can be quite enjoyable and well paid, again depending on the employer, I'd advice any technically inclined individual to look into it. St the same time, I'd never work as a maintenance tech in a factory, that's usually a very stressful job, with emergency work in poor condition, often pushed to work unsafely because of the rush, on old machines often dirty or in poor repair.
Still, I've seen some people make quite a comfortable position in that setting, so it may not be all bad.
As for pay, I think pay should depend mostly on 3 factors: effort, skill and comfort. Those who work harder, are more skilled and are forced into unpleasant settings should be paid more. If you want a more comfortable job you cannot expect to make more than a good, equally skilled worker who's in noisy, dangerous or disgusting environments, and so on.
I don't understand the intergenerational employment point, that sounds sorta dystopic and has no connection to the rest of the argument.
I agree that the work isn't too bad if you're the right type of person. We have pretty good rules from OSHA.
TBH though the intergenerational employment and company towns angle makes it seem like all the rules are going to be discarded so I'm a bit concerned
from OSHA
Not for long!
And that's the problem! These jobs may be okay for now but the people running the government, including the clown in the article, actively wants to make it worse.
I didn't realize that I could be a toolmaker when I grew up until I was already grown up.
I fucking love my job. If I had realized how cool this job was when I was in high school I'd be one of the most well paid people in my field right now. As it is I'm just doing pretty well.
Industrial jobs definitely aren't for everyone, but that's literally any job. I left a comfortable office job for the trades because those jobs aren't for everyone either. And I'm far happier for it.
How is it possible to avoid repetitive stress injury on an assembly line? Seems inevitable.
How bout that American Dream? How bout that upward mobility? Fuck you, Howard Buttlick.
That shit died, or suffered a major blow under Reagan. It's only been downhill since. I'm old enough to remember the yearly increases to the federal minimum wage before they stopped all that at like $7.25. I think my first job paid $6.40. Every time this dude is on TV he's grinning like some doofus or laughing too hard from the lukewarm farts leaking from trump's mouth.
Since the New Deal the goal of the capitalist class has been a slow crawl back to slavery. Couldnt do it too fast. Had to take it slow.
No taxes for the rich and businesses. No rights for workers. And eventually No pay or choice for them either.
That beyond all the other myriad failures of this country is why I hate it so much and why I long to see it fall.
And it's all been fully Bipartisan. Republicans advance the goals of oligarchy by leaps. Democrats are the vanguard that protects the rich and the corrupt. They stop all of us from making things better. Social and cultural issues are ephemeral at best. Ultimately unimportant to the oligarchy beyond their utility as a tool of control and coercion. There is no morality involved. There is just greed and corruption.
Dey tk 'r jerbs!!!
Ok, here you go, maga listens to its voters, kicked out all the immigrants and imports and is proud to present: serfdom.
No, not like that!!
This was always the goal. Serfdom in a different package.
I think in a other timeline I'd be very happy working in a factory for my career. Building something or maintaining the systems. Putting in a hard days work and going home feeling proud I did a good job.
Supporting my 2 kids, stay at home wife and owning my own home with only my income.
My kids needs were all met. All utilities paid up, school supplies and toys, fridge always fully stocked.
My job was secure. 20+ years at the company with a competative salary. My job is secure and safe with my union protecting me. Might retire in 30 or so years with a solid pension and a cool 50 at the factory.
No need to get a job after I retire. Just enjoy my time with my new grandkids my children are happy to have in a strong economy.
But. We're not in the fucking twilight zone.
The American Dream was taken from the masses and they want us "back on the line" for pennies on the dollar in profits.
"I make a penny while the boss makes a dime. That's why I sit on company time."
No. We now make a penny while the CEOs make thousands and were left hungry, homeless and sick.
Get the fuck out of here with that shit.
I hope he gets what he deserves.
The children yearn for the ~~mines~~factories.
The Children Yearn for the Mines!
NGL I'm envisioning The Factory as in SCP 001
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