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But the explanation and Ramirez’s promise to educate himself on the use of AI wasn’t enough, and the judge chided him for not doing his research before filing. “It is abundantly clear that Mr. Ramirez did not make the requisite reasonable inquiry into the law. Had he expended even minimal effort to do so, he would have discovered that the AI-generated cases do not exist. That the AI-generated excerpts appeared valid to Mr. Ramirez does not relieve him of his duty to conduct a reasonable inquiry,” Judge Dinsmore continued, before recommending that Ramirez be sanctioned for $15,000.

Falling victim to this a year or more after the first guy made headlines for the same is just stupidity.

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[-] ArchRecord@lemm.ee 18 points 21 hours ago

For the last time, people need to stop treating AI like it removes their need for research, just because it sounds like it did its research. Check the work your tools do for you, damn it.

[-] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 7 points 20 hours ago

It's Wikipedia all over again. Absolutely feel free to use the tool, e.g. Wikipedia, ChatGPT, whatever, but holy shit check the sources, my guy. This is embarrassing.

[-] Akuchimoya@startrek.website 8 points 20 hours ago

The best use, for me, is asking ChatGPT to give me five (or however many) scholarly, peer-reviewed articles on a topic. Then I search for said articles by title and author name on my school library database.

It saves me so much time compared to doing a keyword search on said same database and reading a ton of abstracts to find a few articles. I can get to actually reading them and working on my assignment way faster.

AI is a great tool for people who use it properly.

[-] ArchRecord@lemm.ee 6 points 20 hours ago

I personally just like using it for rewording/re-explaining a topic that I don't quite get. LLMs may not be the best at actually providing factual evidence themselves, but they can be damn good at reformatting any given content/context you give it into almost any format you want.

[-] cmrn@lemmy.world 62 points 1 day ago

I’m all for lawyers using AI, but that’s because I’m also all for them getting punished for every single incorrect thing they bring forward if they do not verify.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 24 points 1 day ago

That is the problem with AI, if I have to check the output is valid then what's the damn point?

[-] SmoothOperator@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

It's actually often easier to check an answer than coming up with an answer. Finding the square root of 66564 by hand isn't easy, but checking if the answer is 257 is simple enough.

So, in principle, if the AI is better at guessing an answer than we are, it might still be useful. But it depends on the cost of guessing and the cost of checking.

[-] ameancow@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Now if only an AI could actually find the square root of anything. They can't do math, at least the models I've tried. I am aware that if they could do math, it would be a big deal, but really if it can't analyze the actual content in my work files then it's useless to me. It's good at finding mathematical answers by putting in what you expect to get from 120 X 15.5, but doesn't actually know the difference between 1860 and a picture of Judy Hopps in lingerie, and would be equally satisfied giving you one as the other.

[-] SmoothOperator@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

Well, if by AI you mean large language models, they tend to do better at language tasks than math tasks. So a better example might be that it's easier to get an LLM to write a statement for you and checking if it's correct than writing the statement from the bottom.

The square root was just a clearer example. In the case of OP, it might very well be easier to have an LLM propose relevant case law and then check if that case law exists and is relevant, rather than having to find it yourself from square one.

[-] Jiggs@lemm.ee 19 points 1 day ago

You can get ideas, different approaches and concepts. Sort of rubber ducky thing in my case. It won't solve the problem for me, but might hint me in the right direction.

[-] joel_feila@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Shareholder value. Thimg of all the new 2nd and 3rd yatchs they can buy now

[-] lefixxx@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Because AI is better than humans and finding relevant court cases. If you are a lawyer and you cite a court case that you didn't even verify it exists you deserve that sanction and more.

[-] xavier666@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago

"Why don't we build another AI to fix the mistakes?"

I require $100 million funding for this though

[-] k0e3@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 day ago

Works tirelessly? No, AI here!

[-] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 100 points 1 day ago

Hold them in contempt. Put them in jail for a few days, then declare a mistrial due to incompetent counsel. For repeat offenders, file a formal complaint to the state bar.

Eh, they should file a complaint the first time, and the state bar can decide what to do about it.

[-] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 9 points 1 day ago

"We have investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong"

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago

The bar might get pretty ruthless for fake case citations.

[-] sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 day ago

I would hope that gross negligence and incompetence with come with severe consequences.

[-] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 186 points 1 day ago

Haven't people already been disbarred over this? Turning in unvetted AI slop should get you fired from any job.

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 day ago

Different jurisdiction

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 145 points 1 day ago

“Mr. Ramirez explained that he had used AI before to assist with legal matters, such as drafting agreements, and did not know that AI was capable of generating fictitious cases and citations,” Judge Dinsmore wrote in court documents filed last week.

Jesus Christ, y'all. It's like Boomers trying to figure out the internet all over again. Just because AI (probably) can't lie doesn't mean it can't be earnestly wrong. It's not some magical fact machine; it's fancy predictive text.

It will be a truly scary time if people like Ramirez become judges one day and have forgotten how or why it's important to check people's sources yourself, robot or not.

[-] 4am@lemm.ee 47 points 1 day ago

AI, specifically Laege language Models, do not “lie” or tell “the truth”. They are statistical models and work out, based on the prompt you feed them, what a reasonable sounding response would be.

This is why they’re uncreative and they “hallucinate”. It’s not thinking about your question and answering it, it’s calculating what words will placate you, using a calculation that runs on a computer the size of AWS.

[-] OccultIconoclast@reddthat.com 8 points 1 day ago

It's like when you're having a conversation on autopilot.

"Mum, can I play with my frisbee?" Sure, honey. "Mum, can I have an ice cream from the fridge?" Sure can. "Mum, can I invade Poland?" Absolutely, whatever you want.

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[-] jayandp@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

Don't need something the size of AWS these days. I ran one on my PC last week. But yeah, you're right otherwise.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 61 points 1 day ago

No probably about it, it definitely can't lie. Lying requires knowledge and intent, and GPTs are just text generators that have neither.

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[-] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 12 points 1 day ago
[-] Sidyctism2@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 1 day ago

a lie is a statement that the speaker knows to be wrong. wouldnt claiming that AIs can lie imply cognition on their part?

[-] Randelung@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

I've had this lengthy discussion before. Some people define a lie as an untrue statement, while others additionally require intent to deceive.

E: you can stop arguing about definitions and logic. The fact remains that some people will refer to untrue statements as lies, no matter what the dictionary says.

[-] prole 1 points 20 hours ago

It can't just be the first statement, as that would preclude lies of omission.

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[-] lefixxx@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

Nice all the work that the lawyers saved will be offset by judges having to verify all the cases cited

[-] gravitywell@sh.itjust.works 1 points 20 hours ago

Why dont more AI services cite sources? Or just as a lawyer add that to your prompt and just check if they exist? I get fake sources on OpenAI sometimes but its obvious because the links are dead.

[-] communism@lemmy.ml 38 points 1 day ago

Great news for defendants though. I hope at my next trial I look over at the prosecutor's screen and they're reading off ChatGPT lmao

[-] TheOakTree@lemm.ee 20 points 1 day ago

So long as your own lawyer isn't doing the same, of course :)

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[-] salacious_coaster@infosec.pub 24 points 1 day ago

But I was hysterically assured that AI was going to take all our jobs?

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[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

No, lazyness.

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this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2025
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