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[-] cm0002@lemmy.world 145 points 5 months ago

LMAO watch the US be saved by an inability of Muskys frat bois to understand COBOL

[-] Zorsith 83 points 5 months ago

I dont even program and i could've told them it was probably a placeholder or default value lol "durrrrrr lot of people in this database were born at the exact same time on the same day in the same year that predates electronic databases, gotta be fraud!!1!1!11"

[-] wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 44 points 5 months ago

Also predates social security. It's the long con for sure.

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[-] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 45 points 5 months ago

More likely they nuke it due to that lack of understanding.

[-] Souroak@lemmy.sdf.org 36 points 5 months ago

2016-2020 was the age of too stupid to break everything. Now we're staring down the barrel of "The files are in the computer?" But the entire US government is the computer.

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

They'd probably just delete the Cobol code since "nobody would use that old stuff anyway".

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 138 points 5 months ago

Teenage programmers can understand legacy code. These ones didn't. Don't dis teen coders.

[-] JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 61 points 5 months ago

I don't know how many teenage programmers you have interacted with recently, but they are generally just learning the basics, learning core concepts, experimenting, etc...

There is a huge gap between making small, sometimes very cool and creative even, projects and understanding a giant legacy codebase in a language that is not taught anymore. I mean, even university grads often have trouble learning legacy code, much less in COBOL.

You wouldn't say your average teenage cook could make a gourmet meal for a house of 50 people 😅 not a dis, just they haven't had the time to get to greybeard level yet

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[-] spooky2092 21 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

How many teens you think can actually read and understand legacy languages like FORTRAN and COBOL? Let alone a complex codebase written in them?

I studied COBOL a bit in college and it's not exactly hard to read short snippets if you understand other languages, but good luck wrapping your head around anything remotely complex and actually understand what it is doing without having someone who understands the language. Hell, 15-20 years on and multiple languages later, my eyes still cross trying to read and grok COBOL. The people supporting those old code bases get paid well for a reason ...

[-] tempest@lemmy.ca 20 points 5 months ago

Learning to COBOL is not itself that hard.

Understanding decades of "business" logic is.

It isn't WHAT it is doing, it's WHY it is doing it that makes these systems labyrinthian.

Also afaik they don't get paid that well which is part of the problem.

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[-] AngryishHumanoid@reddthat.com 122 points 5 months ago

In before Musk says "You think the government uses COBOL?!"

[-] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 89 points 5 months ago

I don't think the government uses COBOL. I know the government uses COBOL.

[-] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago

He would dismiss COBOL and try to prove that he is a super cool geek with a deep knowledge of DnD and gaming culture. So more like:

"COBOL? Such a language doesn't even exist unless you think Kobolds are real! Hahaha"

[-] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 7 points 5 months ago

Not only do many important government systems ultimately rely on or make heavy use of COBOL...

So do many older private companies.

Like banks. Account balances, transactions.

Its actually quite a serious problem that basically nobody who needs to take seriously actually does.

Basically no one is taught COBOL anymore, but a huge amount of code that undergirds much of what we consider 'modernity' is written in COBOL, and all the older folks that actually know COBOL are retiring.

We're gonna hit a point where the COBOL parts of a system to be altered or maintained, and ... there just isn't anyone who actually knows how to do it.

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[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 109 points 5 months ago

The actual payment system stops payments automatically at age 115 and requires manual verification to restart. The database that is being reported is not even a report of who is getting paid.

This is just dramatic, public evidence of the arrogance and incompetence of DOGE from down to his racist younglings.

For a while, I thought they would at least be good at technology. This episode shows that even that is not true.

How he chose this elite group of chuckleheads is an eyebrow raiser. Other than racism, they seem to have no credentials at all. I mean, on brand for this administration I guess.

[-] Microw@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago

115 sounds too late imo, payments should need manual verification way earlier

[-] AmbientDread@midwest.social 38 points 5 months ago

If that's what you want they should be staffing up instead of firing.

[-] Microw@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago

Absolutely, DOGE is obviously committing crimes doing what they are doing

[-] splinter@lemm.ee 15 points 5 months ago

There are other verification procedures in place as well. This is something like a failsafe.

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[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 63 points 5 months ago

I can't wait for them to discover a bunch of people who are 9999 years old next.

[-] ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago

In the legacy world we just call it the HIGH_DATE constant.

[-] Thorry84@feddit.nl 11 points 5 months ago

In my experience in the legacy world we have the isHighDate function which not only checks the constant, but also 5 other edge cases where the value isn't HIGH_DATE but should be treated as if it is.

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[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 54 points 5 months ago

Jesus fucking christ the interns who have neither seen nor heard of COBOL have also not encountered the concept of a sentinel value used as a fallback/default.

[-] BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 13 points 5 months ago

These are the same interns that are pushing code in production, right?

[-] sasquatch7704@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

What do you expect? most of the guys in "DOGE" weren't even alive on 9/11 I'm a bit surprised that they still have something in COBOL, maintenance probably costs o fortune, good luck finding young COBOL devs

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 6 points 5 months ago

I'm ready to learn COBOL. I will take up the torch. If you know good places to start, let me know. Last time I looked into it it seems way more involved than running stuff like Python, Java, and C.

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[-] PieMePlenty@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago
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[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 50 points 5 months ago

Honestly, if you make it to 150 you deserve the money

[-] Kalysta@lemm.ee 43 points 5 months ago

I keep hearing that gen Z is actually pretty shit with understanding things outside GUIs.

And now I’m watching it actively destroy my country.

[-] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 46 points 5 months ago

Less of a generational problem, more of an educational one. Selfish, badly educated grifters that got pushed into high offices can be of any age. Musk also didn't recognize SQL when he looked at it, which is arguably even more funny.

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[-] anindefinitearticle@sh.itjust.works 42 points 5 months ago
[-] androidul@lemmy.ml 23 points 5 months ago

learn Cobol you uneducated teenagers

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[-] pyre@lemmy.world 22 points 5 months ago

tbf it's only embarrassing if you're capable of embarrassment.

[-] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 19 points 5 months ago

But but it's BREAKING! With a red light emoji!

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 17 points 5 months ago

https://dev.to/mdchaney/cobol-dates-may-20-1875-and-disinformation-5ggh

  1. There is no "date" data type in COBOL. Dates are stored however the programmer wants, but usually numeric character strings
  2. There's no "default" date, even if there were such a data type
  3. Even if there were a default, 1875 would be a bizarre choice

That (obviously) doesn't mean Elon Musk is right. It just means that this explanation of it being some magical COBOL epoch value is wrong. What's more likely is that the Social Security database is very old and has a lot of iffy data in it.

My guess is that it contains everybody who has ever had a social security record, including all the duplicates, all the typos, and everything else. At some point there were probably hundreds of thousands of records that were transcribed from paper into a computer, and it was considered safer to keep the iffy data and make a plan to deal with it later, vs. remove someone from the database who should legitimately be there.

I would also imagine that the systems that take the records out of the DB probably have filters in place that remove the (known) bad records before they're used.

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[-] LittleLordFauntleroy@lemm.ee 14 points 5 months ago

As someone who is working on a project of recreating an enterprise application in a modern tech stack, the legacy code is hard to understand too.

We have something similar in that a ClaimClosedDate is defaulted to 01/01/1900 and if it has that date it means it’s not closed whereas now that would be a nullable field.

[-] Frostbeard@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Jay Kuo is wirth worth following. I know people dislike substack, but a lot decent people publish there. Jay Kuo is good at breaking down the legal aspects of the mess we are seeing now

[-] eestileib 12 points 5 months ago

I'll wait until it get reposted on a platform that isn't doing revenue sharing with Nazis. You know, like myLemmy instance.

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this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2025
1700 points (100.0% liked)

Enough Musk Spam

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