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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by BenDoubleU@lemmy.radio to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

Copied from the reddit post:

Hi all, last night, a post from last year from my personal X account suddenly became a topic of discussion here on Reddit. I want to share a few thoughts on this to provide clarity to the community on what is Proton's policy on politics going forward.

First, while the X post was not intended to be a political statement, I can understand how it can be interpreted as such, and it therefore should not have been made. While we will not prohibit all employees from expressing personal political opinions publicly, it is something I will personally avoid in the future. I lean left on some issues, and right on other issues, but it doesn't serve our mission to publicly debate this. It should be obvious, but I will say that it is a false equivalence to say that agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies) is equal to endorsing the entire Republican party platform.

Second, officially Proton must always be politically neutral, and while we may share facts and analysis, our policy going forward will be to share no opinions of a political nature. The line between facts, analysis, and opinions can be blurry at times, but we will seek to better clarify this over time through your feedback and input.

The exception to these rules is on the topics of privacy, security, and freedom. These are necessarily political topics, where influencing public policy to defend these values, often requires engaging politically.

The operations of Proton have always reflected our neutrality. For example, recently we refused pressure to deplatform both Palestinian student groups and Zionist student groups, not because we necessarily agreed with their views, but because we believe more strongly in their right to have their own views.

It is also a legal guarantee under Swiss law, which explicitly prohibits us from assisting foreign governments or agencies, and allows us no discretion to show favoritism as Swiss law and Swiss courts have the final say.

The promise we make is that no matter your politics, you will always be welcome at Proton (subject of course to adherence to our terms and conditions). When it comes to defending your right to privacy, Proton will show no favoritism or bias, and will unconditionally defend it irrespective of the opinions you may hold.

This is because both Proton as a company, and Proton as a community, is highly diverse, with people that hold a wide range of opinions and perspectives. It's important that we not lose sight of nuance. Agreeing/disagreeing with somebody on one point, rarely means you agree/disagree with them on every other point.

I would like to believe that as a community there is more that unites us than divides us, and that privacy and freedom are universal values that we can all agree upon. This continues to be the mission of the non-profit Proton Foundation, and we will strive to carry it out as neutrally as possible.

Going forward, I will be posting via u/andy1011000. Thank you for your feedback and inputs so far, and we look forward to continuing the conversation.

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[-] leraje 163 points 1 month ago

Trouble is Andy, we now know what you privately think and all the follow up statements in the world can't put that genie back in the bottle.

Proton is an org that exists in an industry whose customers do not trust easily. Publicly aligning with someone utterly untrustable, either as an individual or as a board, has tainted Proton and adversely affected peoples ability to trust. How can we ever know when Proton will find it acceptable again to respond positively to a Trumpian decision or how it might affect our privacy?

[-] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 30 points 1 month ago

Literal thought policing ("what you privately think") and quasi-religious purity logic ("has tainted Proton"). This nicely reveals the kind of busybodying inquisitorial mindset that keeps losing elections for US progressives and thus landing the rest of the world with Trump.

There's an easy solution to the pseudo-problem you raise: judge Proton by its actions rather than the (utterly commonplace) opinions of one of its directors.

[-] BmeBenji@lemm.ee 80 points 1 month ago

It’s not thought policing. Proton, a company all about privacy, is literally nothing without the trust of its user base. Aligning with someone who is not trustworthy by making a statement that makes no sense (literally saying Trump’s administration will be anti-big tech while it’s been gaining shit tons of support from the Tech Titans Musk, Bezos, and Zuck) completely debases that trust. Additionally it’s not thought policing because companies are not people and cannot think.

Even if it was thought policing, in line with the Social Contract of Tolerance, there is no room to tolerate, let alone vocally support, fascists.

[-] ech@lemm.ee 65 points 1 month ago

Hey bud, when you blurt out what you think "privately", it's no longer private, and people not liking what was said publicly isn't "thought policing".

Secondly, Protons actions include supporting this wackjob's "private" thoughts.. Even by your asinine rubric, they're allowed to be judged on that.

[-] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 40 points 1 month ago

"Thought policing" is when you coerce someone to change their thoughts against their will. It is not boycotting a service because one does not agree with the service owner's thoughts. That is not thought policing. That is a purely voluntary transaction on both sides, and that is one's right as a consumer of said service. He is not entitled to customers.

[-] leraje 34 points 1 month ago

Literal thought policing (“what you privately think”)

Are you suggesting that a statement that he made is not what he thinks?

quasi-religious purity logic (“has tainted Proton”)

lol, sorry you're incapable of processing descriptive language :) I'll rephrase it to 'has negatively affected Proton's image in the eyes of some'.

This nicely reveals the kind of busybodying inquisitorial mindset that keeps losing elections for US progressives and thus landing the rest of the world with Trump.

Neither I, nor Proton, are American so its difficult to see how my opinion keeps landing the world with Trump.

[-] yamper@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago

hey i remember you from yesterday's thread, where you called the official proton's account doubling down "significant if true" and still haven't changed your tune

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[-] msage@programming.dev 9 points 1 month ago

I love user notes; this one has 'fascist centrist' attached, and lo and behold.

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[-] TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip 93 points 1 month ago

I'm personally satisfied with the statement, position and reflection on the issue.

It was a fuck-up to publicly respond to donaldtrump in what could be seen as an endorsement. This was acknowledged and remedied.

The no politics stance is probably unavoidable, as mentioned but they should never focus on political parties, but on defending the values, this is what is clarified and that's best. We should accept to support a bill strengthening privacy even if it may come from a political party we generally do not support. Denying our support to such a bill would not strengthen the core value we defend. And as individuals we may still criticize all other activities of such a political party if we disagree with others of their activities.

As a community, I hope we can come together, and resist the temptation of purity tests, and acknowledge that we are all fighting for the same cause, no matter our perspective on other issues. We need the support of everyone.

[-] piyuv@lemmy.world 63 points 1 month ago

His main point is outright wrong though. Republicans are not better at anti-trust, they’re the big money. Thinking Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos will protect small tech companies is laughable.

[-] atrielienz@lemmy.world 27 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

This comment is not the original. He changed it.

https://archive.ph/quYyb

[-] TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 month ago

They seem to be two separate things. One is a comment, the other is a post.

[-] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 62 points 1 month ago

Either way, if he believes this:

Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.

he's fucking dumb as a hammer

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[-] Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 month ago

Yep, I especially appreciate the lack of apologies. An easy cop out would be to say he’s sorry but what would he be sorry for when he didn’t say anything wrong? This is a great response, and the only possible one. And still people will call it damage control.

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[-] slug@lemmy.world 88 points 1 month ago

agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies)

Where is he getting this bullshit from that republicans actually want to do antitrust lol

[-] far_university190@feddit.org 33 points 1 month ago

from https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidently has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.

At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance. 

Chuck Schumer is democrat, JD Vance is republic. Would guess opinion based on personal experience with few people.

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[-] bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com 67 points 1 month ago

Why does his username have "88" in binary 🧐

[-] CatsGoMOW@lemmy.world 34 points 1 month ago

Because of fucking course it does. 🤦‍♂️😮‍💨

[-] piyuv@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago

He might be born on 1988, although I could not verify this. He started his PhD on 2009, that’d make him 21 at that time, which is not unusual

[-] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 month ago

21 is quite young for a doctorate degree. Most people only have a bachelor’s degree by 22.

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[-] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 month ago

The number 8 is lucky to Chinese people. Source: I am Chinese

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[-] halcyonloon@midwest.social 60 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

He should not have @'d Trump. By doing this he is explicitly calling for the incoming administration's attention and signalling he's willing to play ball and bend the knee. Also nice try at obfuscation saying the tweet was from last year, jackass.

Additionally the company account doubled down on his messaging. I think dems suck too, but both sides are not the same. What kind of Swiss crack are they smoking to be able to pretend that the administration that created permanent tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, that I subsidize with my tax dollars, is a friend of the little guy? Or how about the administration that seated the court that bulldozed the right to privacy, while state courts pass censorship laws under the guise of child protections?

The guy is talking out both sides of his face and he's an asshole. While I don't think this is indicative of Proton's services per se I am no longer a paying customer.

[-] gravityowl@lemm.ee 57 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Full context here for everyone.

Personally, that answer does not seem nearly enough and I believe he should step down if he truly cared about the Proton project as a whole.

[-] Grunt4019@lemm.ee 12 points 1 month ago

Stepping down would be a step in the right direction.

[-] merde@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 month ago
[-] Tinkerer@lemmy.ca 53 points 1 month ago

If an employee did this and there was this much backlash that said employee would be promptly fired....

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[-] communism@lemmy.ml 53 points 1 month ago

we refused pressure to deplatform both Palestinian student groups and Zionist student groups

Insane equivocation. One of those is a national and ethnic group; the other is a political movement whose pet project is currently on trial for genocide... "we refused pressure to deplatform both Jewish student groups and National Socialist student groups"

[-] SatanClaus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 month ago

I think that's the entire point of the comment. They are impartial even to evil. They respect privacy.

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[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

“we refused pressure to deplatform both Jewish student groups and National Socialist student groups”

They are a Swiss company, yes.

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[-] AnnaFrankfurter@lemmy.ml 48 points 1 month ago

a post from last year from my personal X account suddenly became a topic of discussion here on Reddit.

You mean last month right.

[-] UntitledQuitting@reddthat.com 23 points 1 month ago

this is the most "i think my userbase are idiots" statement anybody could make. like do you think we dont know how time works andy? fuck you

[-] apotheotic@beehaw.org 19 points 1 month ago

Yeah, last year, 2024. Stupid way of intentionally phrasing it.

[-] Aedis@lemmy.world 42 points 1 month ago

The lines between fact (...) and opinion can be blurry at times

Are they though?

[-] CatZoomies@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

Andy Yen, perched on ivory tower: “Why yes, they are a bit blurry up here.”

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[-] WhatSay@slrpnk.net 36 points 1 month ago

Words are nothing, Andy should step away from proton.

[-] mEEGal@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago

are you basing this on previous words he used ?

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[-] Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 month ago

Literally none of this matters and its all just noise. American politics and Americans themselves are insane.

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[-] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You can tell Andy is European because he does not understand American politics.

If you say anything positive about an American politician it means you will stan them for life and support all their actions unconditionally.

Likewise if you say anything negative about an American politician it means you hate everything they stand for.

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[-] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 26 points 1 month ago

I'm still confused how he could have been dumb enough to think, let alone imply, let alone say out loud, that Republicans want to reign in big tech, when they so transparently want to capture it and make it an even worse version of itself. It's not that everything they do is a cynical power grab, it's that everything they do is a blatant cynical power grab, and being in the privacy business without having a perfectly clear understanding of that feels equivalent to not knowing what a VPN is.

His statement here is great, and I support it whole-heartedly and unabashedly. It just feels almost...I don't know, unrelated somehow? Even though ostensibly it isn't.

[-] Templa@beehaw.org 19 points 1 month ago

I lean left on some issues, and right on other issues

Holy shit I feel so STUPID for giving $30 a month for this clown. I am so pissed, I hate myself for allowing myself to migrate my stuff all over thinking it would be fine. I am so fucking pissed right now.

[-] Midnight1938@reddthat.com 16 points 1 month ago

The American mind cannot grasp liking specific policies of a given party

[-] peppers_ghost@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

You need to understand the Republican party is a fascist one. Giving anything to them is a mistake.

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[-] Horsey@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

Assuming Andy Chen isn’t American, this is understandable:

“It should be obvious, but I will say that it is a false equivalence to say that agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies) is equal to endorsing the entire Republican party platform.”

But it’s extremely tone deaf to Americans who live within the two party duopoly in the US, and who are sensitive to the fact that you can’t really be a compromise between the two (as politics stand, currently)

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[-] arsCynic@beehaw.org 15 points 1 month ago

Almost without fail, every service that touches creeptocurrencies goes into a decline.

Don't expect Proton to make virtuous ethical choices anytime soon, especially now that Trump joined the cult. Once the greed bug has bitten, making a profit supersedes delivering a good product as the primary objective.

Crypto Cult Science
"Money corrupts; bitcoin corrupts absolutely. Disregarding all of bitcoin's shortcomings, a financial instrument that brings out the worst in people—greed—won't change the world for the better." —https://www.arscyni.cc/file/crypto_cult_science.html

https://fosstodon.org/@stardust/112404108681755769

"Responsible financial diversification requires holding some assets outside of the traditional government controlled banking system. That's why Proton will continue to #HODL a significant proportion of our reserves in #Bitcoin to safeguard our independence." —Proton's response to Bitcoin magazine's: "Retweet if you are #HODLing 🙌"

[-] azalty@jlai.lu 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I mean, I’m all for crypto, but proton posting about holding BTC is cringe

I don’t agree with your first sentence though. There is some logic to using crypto, but solely using it as « haha numbers go up, profit, profit! » is stupid

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[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Is he really using u/andy1011000? And he just started now? That's binary for andy88, and isn't 88 a well-known neo-Nazi dogwhistle as idiot code for "heil Hitler"?

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this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2025
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Privacy

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