Imperfection should not make the undecided voters give up on democracy, how can we have progressive policy when the people who want it don’t vote?
Exactly.
We cannot afford to fall victim to the Nirvana fallacy.
We must work within the system to change the system or we risk being excluded entirely.
Nirvana fallacy, also know as "perfect solution fallacy" is suggesting that no solution is better than an imperfect solution. If I can't have nirvana, I don't want anything.
I see it all the time in online arguments. "Oh, you advocate for housing the homeless? Well then why do you have empty rooms in your house? Just fill it with homeless people." this is an example of the fallacy. It suggests that my solution, "house the homeless" should be discarded because it is not a perfect solution, which would be filling my house up with strangers. The goal is to make me say, "oh, I'm not willing to do that, so we should do nothing instead."
I don't think that's an example. People housing others in their own homes isn't an example of the perfect solution to homelessness. I don't know if we have a name for that fallacy but it's kind of a "put your money where your mouth is" fallacy. If you aren't willing to give up a lot for the solution, you must not really believe it is a problem/solution.
People being against the ACA because it isn't single payer health care is an example of the perfect solution fallacy. Or people being against a $15 minimum wage because it really should be $25 now.
It's a bad faith argument and a strawman. They don't actually think it's reasonable for anyone to do that or think the other person is suggesting that. They are setting a person up as a hypocrite despite that obviously being an insufficient and inefficient solution to the housing crisis.
In the paraphrased words of an old white dude
Don’t judge her against the Almighty, judge her against the alternative.
Alternatively: don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
By moderating our online discussion boards to better weed out posts, comments, replies, etc. from foreign interference and domestic Astroturfing that present themselves as far-left in order to convince people that perfect should be the enemy of better. I swear, nobody comes to the conclusion "Esteemed prosecutor Kamala Harris isn't as bad as convicted felon Donald Trump, but she still has flaws and isn't worthy of my vote in a competition for the most influential job in the world that will certainly come down to one of the two of them" on their own. That idea has to be planted by someone arguing in bad faith, and repeated in many forms for someone to begin to believe it.
Not voting is an act of renouncing your voice and your rights. It's not a protest. It's at best complicity with the status quo, and at worst going to support a candidate that will be far far worse for the issues you are "protesting". You don't get to complain when you don't vote. All you get to do is sit down, shut up, and continue your inaction.
Individual politicians and political parties routinely use count a vote as approval. In that way, if no other, voting does serve to support the existing system.
But, even if you believe there must be revolution and the current system CANNOT be reformed, voting is still harm reduction, unless revolution will happen before the results of the election can influence the system.
Individual politicians and political parties routinely use count a vote as approval. In that way, if no other, voting does serve to support the existing system.
I don't think that tracks.
The highest turnout in any US election since 1908 was 62% in 2020, and at no point has a party won an election and been like 'look at all the people who didn't vote, I guess we don't have a mandate to govern'
Parties win elections and govern in power with less than 50% of voters backing them all the time, it's literally the standard. A low turnout will not change the way any party acts once in power.
Living in the US as a person who grew up in Western Europe must be most masochistic way of life possible.
I thought it was touching where he discussed his worries about using his last opportunity to speak before the election, and that he could be left wondering if there was something else that he could have said to change the outcome if it ends up going bad. I imagine there has to be a good bit of pressure when you have such a large platform.
For a show that points out so many wrongs with our country, it's easy to look at things negatively. But for now, at least, we are able to point out those wrongs and still have a hope we can do something about them. Not even 5 years a citizen, I imagine it could be scary as well that if a re-elected Trump goes for a type of "media reform," Oliver is likely going to be high on the list of people to be looked at.
I hope tomorrow goes well for America. I've been disappointed the last few elections that the comedians have been more critical than the mainstream journalists, but right now, I'm glad we've had them if nothing else, motivating us to still be our best.
Ukraine went and elected one of those TV comedians, and, while imperfect, he's been a pretty inspiring leader over the past few years.
I had him in my mind writing my original comment. I don't know much about him before the war, but he seems to be doing admirable if anyone had concerns at his election.
It's fun to turn back the clock and read old news:
"I will never let you down," Mr Zelensky told celebrating supporters.
Russia says it wants him to show "sound judgement", "honesty" and "pragmatism" so that relations can improve. Russia backs separatists in eastern Ukraine.
Mr Poroshenko, who admitted defeat after the first exit polls were published, has said he will not be leaving politics.
He told voters that Mr Zelensky, 41, was too inexperienced to stand up to Russia effectively.
Mr Zelensky starred in the long-running satirical drama Servant of the People in which his character accidentally becomes Ukraine's president.
He plays a teacher who is elected after his expletive-laden rant about corruption goes viral on social media.
He ran under a political party with the same name as his show.
With no previous political experience, Mr Zelensky's campaign focused on his difference to the other candidates rather than on any concrete policy ideas.
NPR: Comedian Wins Ukrainian Presidency In Landslide 22 APR 2019
"What's amazing is that despite Zelenskiy being a household name, people don't really know what he stands for," NPR's Moscow correspondent Lucian Kim told Morning Edition. "During the election campaign, he was very vague about his positions, and in that way he really became a blank slate for people to project whatever they wanted on him." The fact that voters chose Zelenskiy shows how desperate people are, Kim said.
But Ukraine's outgoing president cautioned that the Kremlin is celebrating the election of an inexperienced candidate. Russia believes that "Ukraine could be quickly returned to Russia's orbit of influence," Poroshenko said on Twitter.
According to The New York Times, many voters said they had supported Zelenskiy "not so much because they thought he was a good candidate but because they wanted to punish Mr. Poroshenko for deflating the hopes raised by Ukraine's 2014 revolution and for doing little to combat corruption."
The Washington Post notes that Zelenskiy is just the latest comedian to win public office in elections around the world. In Guatemala, the former comic actor Jimmy Morales won the presidency on an anti-corruption platform with the slogan, "Not corrupt, not a thief." In Iceland, comedian Jón Gnarr ran for mayor as a joke candidate and won, serving one term before he stepped down in 2014. And in the U.S., Saturday Night Live comedian Al Franken became a senator from Minnesota.
Maybe laughter and self-reflection is what the world needs right now. The comedians seem to be picking things up when everyone else is dropping the ball.
I am so ready for this election to be over
“Forever elections” are the new normal, imo.
I fucking hate it too :(
If only Citizens United v. FEC could be overturned, because it's so very obviously terrible😅
Don't worry, once Democrats win 2024 MAGA will just give up forever and stop trying to implement American fascism.
We won't be trapped in a cycle that can only end with the death of the boomers and Gen X or a civil war for the next two decades.
Unfortunately the alt-right disease isn't limited to some arbitrary birth date brackets. It spreads to younger people all the time. You can't just wait it out, you have to fight it, and keep fighting it.
Frederick Douglas on voting at a time when both Parties had shafted Reconstruction.
I suggest watching the entire video from GA State Rep. Ruwa Romman that is embedded in the article. Not so much for her reasoning about why she is voting for Harris, but for her comments of how to accomplish things politically in this country, how it works, how to actually move the country forward bit by bit. It's hard and takes work and time but it can definitely be done, and her thoughts about the Green party, how it doesn't do those things and thus never accomplishes anything.
Oliver said voting for Harris would mean the world could laugh at this past week’s photo of an orange, gaping-mouthed Trump in a fluorescent vest and allow Americans to carry on with life without worrying about what he might do next.
This sounds like my dad. He's kinda a Republican, but doesn't like Trump, and asserted that Trump would just go away after the last election.
Trump and Trumpism are not going away. If Harris wins, even by a lot, it's only going to validate his follower's fears, if it doesn't start an all-out conflict.
Well, I dont think Trump can survive another loss politically. He basically only survived because he moaned about election fraud and refused to accept the results.
Truth is that, the older he gets, the less likely he'll be able to run and the less convincing his "charisma" will be. I think we already see this in effect today to some degree.
C'mon you lazy people. I already voted by mail almost two weeks ago or three. Do that next time if you're going to be lazy like me. But now go out there and face the consequences of your inaction....bad weather, MAGA idiots, fake electors.....fake date if you are prepared to vote Jan 6th or some other date, etc.
Go now! Vote or we're going to have Trump as president again and he's gonna be crazier than before.
I have friends who will not vote for trump for obvious reasons but not for kamala as well, because they don’t vote for a cop!!!!!! Sad stuff
maybe he should tell kamala how important it is and to do everything possible to gain voters.
Either Trump will win, or Harris will win. Choose one to help.
Clearly, obviously, Harris stands a better chance of helping Palestinians than does Trump.
https://psychology-spot.com/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/?origin=serp_auto
Doing anything else other than voting for Harris in this regard is firmly in the stupid category. Trump would be worse in this regard. You are not only hurting yourself but others as well.
Stupid people really don't like being called stupid, and in my experience, will be stupid harder just to show you.... Something!
I was going to bury this lower in the thread but I think this deserves a top line reply.
she could literally just pay lip service the day of the election where it can do the least amount of damage when it comes to moderate voters and that would gain the support of people like me; but she won't
So let's make this perfectly clear for everyone else: this person would sacrifice the rights of women/people of color/lgbtq+ people, accelerate genocide in Gaza/Ukraine/elsewhere, and completely doom any action on climate change.. because they want lip service on an issue they don't actually care about. Wonder why that is?
How nice it must be to go through life blaming everyone else for your own stupidity and bad decisions
I think the first 35 seconds of his "Election 2024: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)" clip are a very strong argument against the Citizens United v. FEC ruling. Same for voting for judges, including marketing at RealCapitalismTM levels in politics is not good, because eventually it will be worth it for sooooo many corporate entities to just pump large portions of the GDP into politics. Nothing can compare with that, so corporations are favored to win, because marketing works. Fatigue is just one of the symptoms that go across the isle, i'm sure.
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