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submitted 9 months ago by FundMECFSResearch to c/science_memes@mander.xyz
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[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 133 points 9 months ago

True but people also use this as an excuse to dismiss any research they disagree with which is idiotic.

Most research is legit. It just might not be interpreted correctly, or it might not be the whole picture. But it shouldn’t be ignored because you don’t like it.

People are especially prone to this with Econ research in my experience.

[-] FundMECFSResearch 53 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

For sure, but it’s important to keep in mind in fields with large financial interests.

Medicine especially. Most studies claiming Cealiac disease (gluten allergy) was not real before it was conclusively proven to be legitimate were funded by bread companies. You won’t believe the number of studies funded by insurance companies trying to show that certain diseases aren’t really disabling, (even though they really are).

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 18 points 9 months ago

And sugar probably kills as many people as smoking, but... yup.

Then again, we all are okay with killing children too, so long as it is with a gun and unwillingly rather than safely in a doctor's office and medically necessary or at least expedient.

[-] socsa@piefed.social 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The entire thing is an edgy strawman. Honest practitioners obviously take seriously the need to understand and articulate the limits of empiricism, and are hostile towards those who abuse the public trust placed in scientific authority. It would honestlt be great if we could do the same with our critiques of capitalism.

[-] Antiproton@programming.dev 32 points 9 months ago

Science doesn't change just because some groups try to use it to forward an agenda.

[-] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 15 points 9 months ago

ignoring the other examples you've been given: it absolutely does even when it goes well. The scientific method is literally based on "other people must change and refine this, one person's work is not immutable nor should be taken as gospel"

Also what science is has changed. Science used to be natural philosophy and thus was combined with other non-scientific (to us) disciplines. Social sciences have only been around 200 years tops.

Some would debate that applied mathematics is science, others would say all sociology isn't science.

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[-] SparrowHawk@feddit.it 12 points 9 months ago

But it does. Cigarettes were healthy and climate change didn't exist 50 years ago

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 13 points 9 months ago

Climate Change has existed for over 110 years in science.

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[-] Leviathan@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

Neither of those things were backed by science. Confusing convincing lobbying with science is a problem today was it was then.

[-] Antiproton@programming.dev 11 points 9 months ago

There was never any science saying "cigarettes are healthy".

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[-] Draconic_NEO@mander.xyz 8 points 9 months ago

I mean those things didn't change, it was just about how research was manipulated by money and human biases.

[-] FundMECFSResearch 17 points 9 months ago

The truth doesn’t change. Scientific consensus does. Scientific consensus has been wrong on countless things. After all, science is about getting things a little less wrong every time.

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[-] SparrowHawk@feddit.it 14 points 9 months ago

Yes but science is a process, not a thing, and that process is corruptible.

There is a differentiation between the natural world for how it's made and the human process that quantifies that knowledge.

Science has always changed, just like human culture did

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[-] Draconic_NEO@mander.xyz 30 points 9 months ago

Let's also not forget that Scientists are also humans. Humans with their own beliefs and biases which do get transferred into studies. Peer review can help reduce that but since peers are also humans with their own biases, but also common biases shared amongst humans it's not bulletproof either.

There will always be some level of bias which clouds judgement, or makes you see/think things that aren't objectively true, sometimes it comes with good intention, others not so much. It's always there though, and probably always will be. The key to good science is making it as minimal as possible.

[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 23 points 9 months ago

If you catch your friends using Science as a religion, tell them they're not a skeptic, they're a cunt.

[-] SoleInvictus 16 points 9 months ago

Am scientist (well, was, before career change), can confirm. Fuck dogmatic scientists, they're worse than regular dogmatists because they've been given many opportunities to know better.

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[-] Bookmeat@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago

Science is the process of getting things a little less wrong.

[-] mo_lave@reddthat.com 19 points 9 months ago

Why not both?

What's decided to be worthy of study is subjective. The process to hypothesize, experiment, and conclude what's being studied is objective.

[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 9 points 9 months ago

Do you or have you ever worked in science? I did for a bit and that was not my impression.

One cannot really argue that science as practiced is very effective at certain things but it is also extremely far from being objective in practice. Especially the further you stray from simple physical systems.

Also like I never saw someone formulate a hypothesis in any sort of formal sense haha.

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[-] underwire212@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago

Ideally, absolutely. That’s what makes the hallmarks of a great scientist.

In practice, institutionalized science can be just as dogmatic and closed-minded as some of the worst religions.

I have had advisors/coworkers/management straight up ignore certain evidence because it didn’t fit their preconceived views of what the results “should be”. This doesn’t make the process of science objective anymore when people are crafting experiments in ways to fit their views, or cherry picking data that conforms to their views.

And you would be surprised at how often this happens in very high-stakes science industries (people’s lives are at stake). It’s fucking disgusting, and extremely dangerous.

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[-] FlapJackFlapper@lemm.ee 17 points 9 months ago

The fact that capitalism taints everything it touches is not a criticism of the things it touches.

[-] Katrisia@lemm.ee 9 points 9 months ago

Yet, it's not as simple as "scientists are under capitalists' interests", but "the ideologies within capitalism permeate the way we do science". A common example is how we measure functionality (and therefore pathology itself) in medicine.

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[-] niktemadur@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

And under socialism in the 20th century, science was an institution that only funds research that advances whatever narrative the hermetic powers-that-be decided to push and strengthen their grip on power, their obsession with secretiveness and projecting an image of infallibility.

Take the Soviet Union.
T.D. Lysenko and his crackpot food engineering ideas is one such glaring example. But boy oh boy could he talk a "toe the party line" game and suck up to Stalin.
Or how about how the kremlin rendered nearly one quarter of Kazakhstan uninhabitable due to their relentless nuclear testing. And they nearly did that for all of western Europe with Chernobyl.

In the name of workers and science, we shall poison your land. Science for the workers' paradise, rejoice, comrades!

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[-] socsa@piefed.social 13 points 9 months ago

Nihilism is fun! Science as a framework for truth seeking, and big S Science are functionally different things. Nobody is making the argument that Science is free from political or economic bias, or even that empiricism is the sole arbiter of truth. Literally just finish reading Kant, I'll wait.

On the other hand, you can look at the world and very plainly see that science... does things. It discovers truth with a far better track record than every other imperfect epistemology. But sure, capitalism bad. Twitter man cringe. And the internet is just like, an opinion, or something.

[-] A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It doesn't matters what it is, if you use a strawman I will automatically disagree.

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[-] crawancon@lemm.ee 11 points 9 months ago

science is science. it can be (sometimes necessarily) prioritized via societal influence, culture and monetary means.

socialist countries have different types scientific spend but I don't see femboys taking things in the ass for them I guess.

[-] socsa@piefed.social 7 points 9 months ago

Look, the only thing in the world which hasn't been corrupted by capitalism is OP's brain, which happens to be in a jar, on a shelf, owned by an evil demon, who lives in a hole at the bottom of the sea. Just be thankful that the capitalists have not figured out how to harness this phenomenological power yet.

[-] 10_0@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago
[-] FundMECFSResearch 26 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

If you’d like to read into this I recommend these books.

1. “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions” by Thomas S. Kuhn

2. “Science as Social Knowledge” by Helen Longino

3. “The Politics of Science” by David Politzer

4. “The Science Industry” by Philip Mirowski

5. “The Commodification of Science: A Critical Perspective” by various authors

An example of why this matters would be that research claiming ME was psychological was heavily funded, by both governments and insurance companies because it meant that they didn’t have to spend money on people disabled with ME. No effort was made to look at possible biological causes. Only a couple decades later, we now know it is a neuroimmune disease. But since insurers and government don’t benefit from that fact, it took decades to show and disprove the mountain of research claiming it is psychological. This meant thousands of people died from the disease or were in severe poverty.

[-] 10_0@lemmy.world 32 points 9 months ago

I meant for the femboy getting pounded in the bottom photo

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[-] Atelopus-zeteki@fedia.io 10 points 9 months ago
[-] P4ulin_Kbana@lemmy.eco.br 9 points 9 months ago
[-] Astronauticaldb@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

Took like maybe 5 minutes of searching, but the artist is Bro Aniki

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[-] CyberTailor@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

Critical theory, my beloved

[-] praise_idleness@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
[-] Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml 13 points 9 months ago

does tankie just mean "critiques capitalism" now?

[-] fern@lemmy.autism.place 10 points 9 months ago

This is tankie? It seems just communist.

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[-] FundMECFSResearch 9 points 9 months ago

I’m an anarchist who despises authoritairian tankies.

This is just critical theory, and meta science. Both of which are legitimate fields.

[-] Juice@midwest.social 6 points 9 months ago

Does anybody understand what this meme is trying to say? I feel like its pretty obvious

[-] micka190@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

Neil DeGrass Tyson rails femboy doomers from behind while debating science or something idk.

[-] Emmie@lemm.ee 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Some kind of commie drivel that’s literally incomprehensible since the last nail in the coffin of scientific Marxism in the 70s

You can even see identity politics held at the gunpoint to make it more appealing to minorities though no one knows how those matters relate to any of this

[-] Juice@midwest.social 6 points 9 months ago

So no, no one understands it.

What was the last nail, exactly? I don't see how swapping out neo-liberal drivel with "scientific Marxist drivel" would be any improvement

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this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
711 points (100.0% liked)

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