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[-] tetrachromacy@lemmy.world 245 points 1 month ago

The first time the moderators countered his obvious dog-whistle lies I was absolutely blown away. You could have knocked me over with a feather. Then I started laughing and didn't stop.

The correction was really well done and completely natural by both moderators, I almost didn't register what happened. Love to see it.

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 94 points 1 month ago

Too bad they let him continue to lie about the thing they just fact checked, let him talk beyond his allotted time, reapond when it wasn't his turn, and shut down Harris the one time she tried to respond out of turn.

The moderators crossed an extremely low bar on fact checking last night, but did everything else the same way they always have.

[-] Rhaedas@fedia.io 53 points 1 month ago

All his talking didn't help him at all. I don't think the Harris side cared about him self-destroying his image and giving lots for the talk shows later to make fun of.

[-] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 month ago

It gives him a platform. End of story. Every single minute he talks it allows for normalization.

[-] Bassman1805@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago

This works for some things, but it's like the parable of the boiled toad: you need to push on the edges of truth, not come out guns blazing with "post-birth abortions", "Immigrants eating family pets", and "Democrats wanted Roe v Wade overturned also"

[-] frezik@midwest.social 11 points 1 month ago

It's too late for that. We deal with him or he gets back in the White House.

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[-] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 42 points 1 month ago

It's complicated, since the Harris campaign wanted him to have more opportunities to ramble, interrupt and get mad. They were very much counting on him being himself and comparing that to someone who can speak in coherent sentences without getting mad.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 9 points 1 month ago

A well executed Batman Gambit in real life.

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[-] DogPeePoo@lemm.ee 33 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

That really showed what a shitbag outfit CNN has become under it’s new conservative ownership group. They are a wolf in sheep’s clothing now.

“I would like to see CNN evolve back to the kind of journalism that it started with, and actually have journalists, which would be unique and refreshing,” he said. Then he suggested a model: “Fox News, in my opinion, has followed an interesting trajectory of trying to have ‘news’ news, I mean some actual journalism, embedded in a program schedule of all opinions.”

Malone’s comments didn’t resonate much beyond a couple of places: At Fox News, which responded with glee, and inside CNN, where they sounded alarm bells.

—New board member and billionaire John Malone, a legend in the cable TV business and one who has deep and longstanding ties with David Zaslav

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

CNN was much more honorable—the debate we had with Biden was a much more honorably run debate.”

The CNN moderators in June notably did not fact-check or question statements made by Trump or Biden during that event, as per agreed rules.

Emphasis added

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[-] renrenPDX@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Yeah the baby executioner bit was gold.

[-] tetrachromacy@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

THEY'RE EATING THE DOGS

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[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 224 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

They barely even fact checked him in the first place. They called him on a total of, what, three things? As opposed to the probably dozens of other complete untruths he uttered, not even just about policy and so forth but actual empirically verifiable elements of reality?

Here's just what I spotted:

  • Lied about not being involved with Project 2025 and not knowing what it is. We know he is acutely aware of what it is, and in fact some members of his staff were involved in its framing.
  • Lied about the number of immigrants coming into the country.
  • Further lied stating that other countries were "sending all their criminals and mental patients."
  • Claimed people were "aborting" babies after birth (called out by moderators).
  • Claimed Harris said she would ban fracking in Pennsylvania (called out by Harris).
  • Lied about crime rates going "through the roof" (called out by moderators).
  • Responded to this by claiming FBI crime stats were falsified by "leaving out problem cities."
  • Lied about migrants eating people's pets (called out by moderators).
  • Lied about inflation numbers post-pandemic.
  • Lied claiming that "Biden" built the Nordstream pipeline.
  • Distorted the truth by claiming he won more votes than any sitting president in the last election, failing to mention that Biden still got more.

There were probably others.

He also essentially admitted that his plan for the war in Ukraine was to just let Russia win. That should be pretty damn worrisome for anyone.

I wish they had pushed him harder on the simple yes or no questions.

Also, Harris missed a perfect opportunity to point out that Trump has been the only president that has advocated a gun ban. "take the guns and figure out due process later"

[-] PhAzE@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 month ago

The yes/no about "should Ukraine win the war" he wouldn't answer anything except that he would end the war. He would just give up Ukraine to Russia to end it, though, and he didn't want to say that on TV.

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[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

That would make him enemies right in the middle of his fandom.

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 25 points 1 month ago

I'm sure he was completely truthful when he said he didn't read Project 2025. It would be very surprising if he read anything besides Mein Kampf.

[-] tiefling 17 points 1 month ago

The only way he actually read Mein Kampf is if it came in picture book format

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

"Everyone says it, you know Trump really is a genius, they say it. I've read all the best books: the Hungry Caterpillar, Green Eggs and Ham, Goodnight Moon. I'm the biggest read person in the country. They say this. The Giving Tree. I hated that book, communist propaganda! Kambala probably wrote it."

[-] bss03@infosec.pub 5 points 1 month ago

He read Maus but took the wrong lessons from it?

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[-] kboy101222@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago

Hell, I'd be surprised if he's read more than the Berenstain Bear on audio book

[-] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Lied about Kamala being a Border Czar. She led a diplomatic initiative aimed at curbing immigration, she was never directly involved in border matters.

[-] Quexotic@infosec.pub 7 points 1 month ago

I learned that what he does actually has a special name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

The Gish gallop (/ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡæləp/) is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm an opponent by presenting an excessive number of arguments, with no regard for their accuracy or strength, with a rapidity that makes it impossible for the opponent to address them in the time available. Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality.

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 month ago

Biden wasn’t a sitting president though.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago

That's true on a technicality, but everyone knows what he meant. In the 2020 election, Biden got ~7 million more votes than Trump in addition to winning the electoral college. Trump's intent was to be intentionally misleading and to twist the qualifications to imply that he should have won last time when, in fact, he didn't.

[-] Nollij@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 month ago

It's a sobering detail of our situation. In 2020, Trump really did receive more votes than any candidate in any previous election. That means a ton of people showed up to vote for him in 2020 that hadn't in 2016.

He frames it weird (and it sounded weird when he said it) because otherwise it raises the obvious point that Biden also achieved that same record, plus an extra 7 million votes.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

True, although population growth is a factor as well.

Like, it wouldn't be surprising to see more total votes than in 1990, just because there's a lot more people. Let alone 1890. The "most ever" has pretty declining meaning after going back just a couple of decades.

% of adult population would be more meaningful.

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[-] simplejack@lemmy.world 81 points 1 month ago

If you don’t want to be fact checked, maybe don’t repeatedly insist that Florida’s abortion ballot measure will legalize killing newborns.

[-] Steve@startrek.website 11 points 1 month ago

Already legal in many states, happens every day. Don’t you watch tv?

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[-] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 74 points 1 month ago

No mic should ever be placed near this man again.

[-] Nougat@fedia.io 59 points 1 month ago

Pence: Please do not place me near this man again.

[-] todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 69 points 1 month ago

Conservatives are mad that "they only fact checked Trump", and yeah, there's some truth to that...

But they let him tell so many little lies unchallenged. They only fact checked him on the egregious stuff like "Haitians eat pets" and "post-birth abortions".

Harris may have said some half-truths or omitted context for a few things, but she never told a single non-truth comparable to the things Trump got fact checked for.

The worst actual post-debate criticism I've heard for Harris was that she continues to say that Trump will enact Project 2025 and a federal abortion ban as president, despite his statements denying support for these things. The thing is, Trump is a huge fucking liar, and a Republican, so yeah, she's right to keep saying what he will absolutely do as president, despite his lies to the contrary.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 26 points 1 month ago

Harris may have said some half-truths or omitted context for a few things, but she never told a single non-truth comparable to the things Trump got fact checked for.

The problem with Harris is that she's a professional politician who knows how to skirt the line. So you can challenge her on a point and she can clarify it in her favor and then PoliticoFactCheck has to do a 500 word article getting to the nut of the issue (and they'll get called liars for their biased interpretation too).

But "Black people in Ohio are eating all your dogs" is much more straightforward and easier to debunk. Same with "infanticide is legal in California".

Trump is a huge fucking liar, and a Republican

He's ForwardsFromGrandma tier racist. Even as lying goes, it comes across as weird and vulgar.

[-] cheers_queers@lemm.ee 18 points 1 month ago

we know definitively that trump is tied to project 2025, so yeah she's going to keep saying that.

[-] cultsuperstar@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

Didn't he also get like an extra 5-7 minutes of talk time? He would "answer" a question, Kamala would giver her rebuttal, then he would be like "wait a minute I need to respond to that" and they would let him.

[-] Plavatos@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 month ago

Yeah, definitely a double standard on mic control. Any time he opened his mouth they turned his mic on, she tried once and they did a hard pass. Hell, even while they refuted his dog eating claims his mic was on talking over the moderator.

And that's because all of the media loves Trump. They have a bias, sure, but they know the crazy shit he says sells views/headlines and that's their business, informing the public is a byproduct.

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[-] a9cx34udP4ZZ0@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

a federal abortion ban as president, despite his statements denying support for these things

They straight up asked him the question, and he refused to answer it. So, she didn't tell a "half truth" - he literally refused to say he would veto a national ban when directly given the opportunity to do so.

As for project 2025, it's his playbook. Whether or not he will specifically call it that, doesn't change the fact it's how he wants to dismantle the federal government.

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[-] nifty@lemmy.world 54 points 1 month ago

The problem is that no one fact checks him in his personal life, so he thinks it’s just a thing his political opponents do. But the reality is that no one thinks it’s worth the time to correct his wrong way of thinking, esp. when he can be a useful idiot and use his wrong ideas to distract from the issues at hand

[-] treble@sh.itjust.works 42 points 1 month ago

Should have been locked up ages ago, but seeing him this humiliated almost makes up for it.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

Oh no. No, no we have a long way to go before anything makes up for it.

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 1 month ago

“The press is so dishonest in this country, it’s amazing,” Trump said. “Now, I didn’t mind because frankly I was pretty sure that’s what they would do. CNN was much more honorable—the debate we had with Biden was a much more honorably run debate.”

I felt better about the one where I creamed the senile old guy. The one where a younger, Black, WOMAN was awful.

He also said that the full context of his quotes on Charlottesville make it clear that what he’d said was “absolutely perfect.”

It was a perfect phone call!

Nevertheless, Trump claimed the evening had gone well for him. “I’ve been told I’m a good debater,” he said. “I think it was one of my better debates. Maybe my best debate.”

You're right, you've never done better. Way to go, shithead.

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[-] lemmy_get_my_coat@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago
[-] exanime@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

well, cunts tend to do just that

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[-] chemicalprophet@lemm.ee 15 points 1 month ago

I demand the shitgibbon be shutdown. Did you hear me? I demanded it!

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[-] DarkDecay@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

Well I demand trump be shut down. For being too old and senile! Bye dementia don

[-] todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 11 points 1 month ago

Didn't he say he won the debate? What's he mad about?

[-] dudinax@programming.dev 10 points 1 month ago

He's such a whiner.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm not sure there were opportunities to fact check harris and the one point where trump said it was disproven the "fact check" basically takes trump at his word that trump wasnt talking about the nazis.

Which is a black mark on snopes for allowing an unprovable statement as a fact by a guy known to lie and walk back his missteps.

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this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2024
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