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Research (slrpnk.net)

Oh hey, also the same thing with environmental issues

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[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 133 points 2 months ago

Yup. Programmes that have experimented with giving homeless people hundreds in no-rules cash find that within a couple of months most of them have secured accommodation and reconnected with family and friends. After a while the majority are in paid employment.

Who would have guessed that the most of the problems of extreme poverty could be solved with money?!

Next you're going to tell me you can solve homelessness by giving people housing

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 61 points 2 months ago

Yes. But in more controversial news, you can solve hunger with.... money!

It's like giving people money empowers them to choose to fix their problems, most important ones first.

The surprising bit is that drug use rates drop substantially if people can cope with everyday life.

[-] The_v@lemmy.world 37 points 2 months ago

Drug use rates also decrease with accessible medical and mental health care. It's almost like treating the cause works better than punishing the symptoms...

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 months ago

Well then, seems to me like money itself is the issue

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Who'd've thunk it?

Problem: poverty.
Solution: money.

[-] Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Problem: no money

Solution: you guessed it it's money

[-] Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 months ago

Problem: money

Solution: get rid of money.

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

Obviously, we should stop people from sleeping outside by adding pikes everywhere. That's how you solve the problem!

[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

But I'm using these bootstraps, they can go find their own!

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 months ago

I almost thought this was going a different way. I'm happy to be wrong.

I imagine some capitalist, right-wing fucker is screaming at their screen going "nu-uhhh" and furiously typing that you're wrong despite having done zero research.

I'm employed, and I live like I'm in poverty. As much as I want to lift up the homeless, I would also appreciate fair wages for the employed.

Since rent/housing has gone insane, I'm having a hard time making things work on the money I'm making. I'm well over the "poverty" line and I can't afford to put fuel in my car and buy name brand products, even if I wanted to. Products like.... Idk, Campbell's.

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Minimum wage desperately needs to rise. It's not either or.

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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 128 points 2 months ago

But to take it a bit further, high capacity public infrastructure can go a long way towards improving the lives of low income working people.

Trains, buses, and subways can eliminate the need to own and maintain a car. Public housing can get people off the street, where they won't be at risk of harm from interpersonal violence or exposure to severe weather. Public education and public health care have more benefits than I could list.

At an individual level, "Just give people money" is an immediate and useful generic panacea. But at a more macro level, geographic access to grocery stores and clinics and colleges and bus stops and permanent homes and factories matter just as much.

[-] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Clearly, the Venn of those who're empowered to make those changes and those who've played at least a couple hours of SimCity is two estranged circles.

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 18 points 2 months ago

It needs to be quality of those things, as well. And they know this. It's designed to keep us too tired, broken physically and mentally to get off the wheel, and not just under it, either. There's enough for everyone, just some few want to hoard it like decades worth of paper, not because it may come in handy, just because bloodsport is still entertainment, no matter how well they dress it.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

It needs to be quality of those things, as well.

Oh absolutely. I have a bus stop on my corner, but it only picks up every 2 hours and then doesn't go to downtown.

There’s enough for everyone, just some few want to hoard it like decades worth of paper, not because it may come in handy, just because bloodsport is still entertainment, no matter how well they dress it.

Kropotkin was saying it over a century ago. Bread Book, baby.

People periodically ask how a country like Denmark or New Zealand or Japan can have such high standards of living relative to their individual incomes. Or why a country like the UK or Saudia Arabia can be so rich and yet appear so poor from a street level view.

So much boils down to who has access to quality infrastructure.

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[-] grue@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

But to take it a bit further, high capacity public infrastructure can go a long way towards improving the lives of low income working people.

Trains, buses, and subways can eliminate the need to own and maintain a car.

The real problem is zoning. If the density is high enough (and mixed-use enough), people can just fucking walk places whether you've got public transit or not!

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Even in areas where we have zoned for dense real estate, we've built these four lane boulevards with barely a crosswalk between them.

At some level, we could use a little zoning. Pedestrianization isn't going to happen via the free market.

[-] mumblerfish@lemmy.world 60 points 2 months ago

I Sweden a liberal lobby group suggested "build apartments without kitchens" for poor people. It is so fucking dystopian.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 months ago

Isn't that just a hotel room?

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[-] Xenny@lemmy.world 55 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

When I took out a loan from my bank I swear to God for the first 6 months they were absolutely terrified of my spending habits and I got emails daily about how to spend and and how my spending habits were reckless. I've made every payment I don't understand what f****** high horse they were coming from.

[-] Zacryon@feddit.org 28 points 2 months ago

And on the flip side, when you're not spending much money, you're being accused of ruining the economy. Especially if you like avocados.

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 18 points 2 months ago

So ... People who have billions of dollars sitting around doing jack and shit, are ruining the economy?

That actually checks out.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

Actually yeah. Sequestering money from the economy is one of the worst possible things to do according to economics.

[-] ochi_chernye@startrek.website 10 points 2 months ago

Damn ~~Uncle Scrooges~~ Uncles Scrooge ruining the economy with their improbably swimmable money bins! Where's Magica De Spell when you need her?

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 38 points 2 months ago

I admit that I haven't finished the book "Utopian for Realists", but the author showed numerous studies and practical examples that universal basic income works. And believe it or not, Richard Nixon was close to introducing UBI but his Friedmanite-advisors dissuaded him.

[-] LordKitsuna@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

I'm definitely in the not believe it Camp because the president doesn't have that kind of unilateral power to just apply something. It would have required the support of the house and the Senate.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

We actually got as far as running a trial of it back then. But we couldn't keep going with it because... The divorce rate went up. And that was obviously super bad. Can't have women escaping, uhh er, deciding they want things.

[-] LordKitsuna@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

When they can finally decide on somewhere to eat we can talk about more choices (massive /s just in case)

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[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

I suppose my comment could have been phrased better, but by introducing I mean he wanted to forward UBI to be legislated/legalised by the house and Senate.

[-] EnderMB@lemmy.world 27 points 2 months ago

I'm gonna be that guy, since there are a lot of comments saying that "research suggests".

Source?

I do fully agree with it. The drug trade is impossible to stop, but decriminalisation and funding of healthcare will help many that are homeless. From tackling these aspects, helping those that want to free roam to do so safely, basically leaves you with those that just need some money to get back on their feet.

But, even if these things seem obvious, they need a source if you're going to speak from a position of fact.

[-] ansiz@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

Assuming the link works, this is a great resource of research papers on the topic - https://www.givedirectly.org/cash-evidence-explorer/

[-] OminousOrange@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 months ago

Here's one local to me. Slightly old but quite relevant.

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[-] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 months ago

Ok but have we tried telling them about Jesus instead of giving them money? They're poor because they're bad. If you give them money then they'll use it to be bad again, which will keep them poor. /s

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 months ago

no that would be socialism, silly

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[-] unphazed@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago

Fun story. My FIL couldn't afford to travel to our wedding. I loaned him 3k for travel and a tux and hotel fare for his family. That Christmas we got one of those books from Ollies titled "500 ways to save money" from him. I lost the fight to send it back with torn out pages and a note that would say "1-500. Don't lend money to family".

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[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Edit 3: one last edit that I'm putting at the top because I'm not sure if people are only reading part of what I've written, jumping to conclusions and then putting words into my mouth; or if I've just been very bad at conveying what I'm trying to say.

Firstly: I'm arguing from an American perspective, something I failed to specify.

Secondly: money is great, however, many people need more than money. By all means, give them money, but make sure they have other resources in case they need it. If nothing else, there are a lot of people in homelessness or poverty with serious mental health needs. Money isn't going to help if they can't afford healthcare.

Thirdly: I also failed to give examples of what I meant by, do something else too. I meant, cap rent, build public housing, ensure that people have access to food even when CEOs are renting out pineapples, etc.

Finally: the US runs on greed. Prices in the US are outstripping wages dramatically because CEOs realized they could charge more. I think the reason why giving money works in studies is because CEOs don't know who's getting the handouts; if they did, they'd absolutely try to fleece them for the assistance money. That's why doing it universally, so that CEOs know that a lot of people are getting additional money, without any other form of assistance, will just lead to people being priced out of life again.

Not sure how much I'll contribute or respond after this. I'm feeling kinda discouraged due to how many people are putting words in my mouth (it may be a misunderstanding, but it's still demoralizing).


Oh my god, I'm using fish as a metaphor for money, and teaching someone to fish as a metaphor for ensuring their ability to provide for themselves. That's what the metaphor is about. Ensuring people's ability to provide for themselves. Is that really what y'all are confused about? If you see me referring to "fish" then I'm talking about money, not food.


I'm not convinced that just cash will solve homelessness or poverty. It may help, but it seems like a "give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime" kinda situation. Give people the fish so they can eat, but if you want them to actually be independent, then you gotta make sure they have the tools they need to do so.

And you know what, maybe they just are that way, maybe they're just cursed to always be a dependent on someone. However, if that's the case then they're going to need way more help than just fish. In the meantime though, maybe treat them like human beings that are down on their luck but otherwise capable of supporting themselves. Yeah, make sure they have food, a roof over their head, water, toilets and so on, but don't stop there. That's why I'm saying this, there may be people who see your post and think that just throwing money at the problem will make it go away. It'll help, but it's not gonna fix it 100%.

Edit: I'm not sure why it's controversial to say that people need more help than just money. Personally? If I was homeless or in poverty, I'd want more than just money. Like, I'm not saying to not give people who are homeless or in poverty money, but what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't stop there.

Edit 2: I don't understand why people are so confused here. I'm not saying it won't work for some people, but there are people that it won't work for. To repeat something I said further along, in my experience, there are people who take these things literally. In my experience, there are people who would look at this meme, say, "sounds good, let's do that" and then get mad when it doesn't work for everyone.

I'm not saying that money won't help a lot of people; it would. It's just that there are people who will take this literally and believe it's the only thing you have to do.

[-] PunnyName@lemmy.world 29 points 2 months ago

Most people who are homeless were a paycheck or two away from homelessness.

It's easier for the housed to become homeless, than for the homeless to become housed. It's systemic, and a good chunk of it is employers mistreating employees.

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[-] ericbomb@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Research seems to show that a lot of people just need a small step up to get back on track.

So you basically just did the meme.

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[-] m0darn@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 months ago

I'm not convinced that just cash will solve homelessness or poverty. It may help, but it seems like a "give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime" kinda situation. Give people the fish so they can eat, but if you want them to actually be independent, then you gotta make sure they have the tools they need to do so.

I think the reason you've taken so much flak is that money isn't fish. Money can be converted into tools. Yes, of course you're right that some people won't use the money in a way which will end their homelessness, and may benefit from 'other programs'. But the meme was specifically about people objecting to the idea of giving poor people money so that they can solve their own problems. Rolling out 'other programs' is great, but the 'other programs' will be much more effective if they're not clogged with people that can solve their own problems with a bit of cash.

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[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Noo poor people will just use up the money if we give them some!!1!

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[-] infinite_ass@leminal.space 11 points 2 months ago

Money is religion now. It's scary to be rational about it. There's a dogma and that's that. Any other way and we freak out.

[-] Anti_Face_Weapon@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Ok reusing clothes is not a bad thing. Even in a perfect world with no poverty, it's important to reuse.

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this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2024
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