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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by nicknonya to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

like you go to the not-believing-until-seeing convention with lies and what? expect to get away with it?

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[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 147 points 7 months ago

I used to follow her on Twitter. She'd be constantly berated by some guy in France. Like, dude, if you're arguing with a buster because she combed through your shit and found louse, you've lost twice this game.

[-] needthosepylons@lemmy.world 51 points 7 months ago

Not any guy, our very own Didier Raoult. Unethical, gross, money hoarding, conspirationist and overall public danger Didier Raoult.

[-] bagelberger@lemmy.world 87 points 7 months ago

My father in law (prior to his passing) worked for the National Science Foundation and his job was to investigate grant fraud like this. Apparently it happens all the time.

[-] msage@programming.dev 66 points 7 months ago

Fuck capitalism!

We need housing and food for everyone, then we can all chill out and focus on advancing further.

This hamster wheel of shit is going to kill us all.

[-] nicknonya 22 points 7 months ago

but think of the bajilionaires! how will they afford their yachts without stealing value from people!?

[-] msage@programming.dev 8 points 7 months ago

With their bootstraps! And hustle! And so much work that they do 10 days a week!

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

Before I decide you're cool or not you have to pass a test.

How do you feel about NATO?

[-] killingspark@feddit.org 15 points 7 months ago

Not the person you asked but I'm interested if I'm passing the vibe check

I hate that NATO exists, but I see that it has currently a purpose because other forces would and did overpower countries that aren't included in a military alliance with mutual support obligations.

I want NATO to be a thing of the past as soon as possible but that doesn't mean dismantle it and be helpless again. It means we need to get rid of the need for a NATO.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 8 points 7 months ago

Based. We need more NATO members, except Turkey cause fuck Turkey trade them for the Armenians. I also aint much of a fan of Hungary.

[-] msage@programming.dev 6 points 7 months ago

Simple - does anything threaten the housing and food? If yes, can NATO stop it? If yes, then yay NATO. Any other case? No thank you.

Demilitarizing the world won't happen in a night, but we all know NATO won't agree to it, so it will have to go eventually.

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

I would argue belligerent nations waging war on agricultural nations, for example Ukraine, is a threat to food and housing.

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[-] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 44 points 7 months ago

Because some people just treat it like a silicon valley start-up: say you've got results from your smoke and mirror show and then hope someone actually gets the results.

Fig. 1 - Ninov

Fig. 2 - Schön

Fig. 3 - Hwang

[-] Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca 17 points 7 months ago

These are fantastic documentaries BTW, highly recommend if you liked Mayday, NOVA, Life, or any long form investigative journalism.

[-] quilan@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Good ol" BobbyB does not miss, thank the gods. Memes aside, his work is indeed phenomenal.

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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 35 points 7 months ago

I mean thats pretty out-right fraud, but plenty of scientific fraud is more.. idk if I would say nefarious, but certainly as damaging. There is so much pressure to get "certain" results. Its much much more work to detect either intentional or "self-delusioned" statistical fraud. Science is already incredibly difficult when you don't have the pressure on you to generate specific results.

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

In Paleoanthropology these days, you will not find an article about a hominid fossil discovery that doesn't include some variant of the phrase "forcing Anthropologists to rethink their assumptions". This all derives from the "Lucy" find that truly did force Anthropologists to rethink their assumptions. Before Lucy, it was assumed that the two most unique aspects of humans - our big brains and our bipedal locomotion - evolved together, but the fact that the 3.9 myo Lucy (since revised to 3.3 myo) was fully bipedal despite having a chimpanzee-sized brain threw this assumption out the window. The career successes of her discoverers and analysts prompted everyone else who finds a bit of thigh bone to make similar claims of significance, despite the fact that no other discovery has had any real earth-shattering significance like that.

No fraud but just massive overstating of importance.

[-] MNByChoice@midwest.social 31 points 7 months ago
[-] overcast5348@lemmy.world 40 points 7 months ago
[-] Sharkwellington@lemmy.one 22 points 7 months ago

It really is incredible that we have a way now to fund the jobs that can only be created and performed by a select few individuals. We don't need a corporation to create the job for us, someone with a specific skill shows up and society says "yeah we need one of those."

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[-] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 28 points 7 months ago

"tRuSt tHe sCieNCe!"

This is a joke of course...well kinda. When science is done well it can change the world. Who would be against that?

I don't like the phrase because while the process of science seeks to be as factual and unbiased as possible those in the scientific community are still human. They are fallible, corruptible and can do things for their own personal gain or profit. So to me it could mistakenly misunderstood as "trust science blindly"

But "Trust the science that is validated by multiple reputable sources" just doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely

[-] Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca 19 points 7 months ago

Trust the process maybe? This post is about the process of science correcting errors after all.

[-] borth@sh.itjust.works 14 points 7 months ago

I agree, that phrase seems to be a little misleading with the "trust in God" crowd because to them, that is the ultimate answer, and no other answer would come close to being "right". But "trust the science" is not meant to be the ultimate answer, just a sign pointing you in the right direction, so that you can then check the science to see if it's reliable. So, the science that you're trusting is not theirs, but yours.

[-] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

"We did our research!" (flat earthing intensifies)

I'm kidding I see your point

[-] Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

you can then check the science

Me and what degree? Science is so far beyond what I can understand that I would need to spend years of my life studying a single topic to understand a small sliver of science.

I, and generalizing to we, need to take science on faith as much as anyone in a church. Actually, it's more on faith than in a church because anyone can pray and see what that results in.

[-] metaStatic@kbin.earth 20 points 7 months ago

really? never?

$19m in grants

[-] nicknonya 10 points 7 months ago

i can't imagine they are just left with the money after

[-] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 14 points 7 months ago

If you're already committing fraud, what's a little embezzlement sprinkled on top?

[-] kreel@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

Academic grants can work in a lot of ways. It is common for a significant chunk to be taken as overhead by the university (20-40%). This is generally smaller for senior members of the faculty who bring in more grants. The PI (primary investigator, read: dude with a reputation) tends to get 5-10% to run the program, and then another 30-40% goes to salaries for researchers working under them (read: grad students). The rest, on the order of 20%, goes to capital costs like materials, time on expensive machines, or prototypes.

So this guy probably got paid $1-2M directly for the grants over maybe 3-5 years. Note I haven't looked into his specific situation.

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[-] smeg@feddit.uk 16 points 7 months ago

That photo of Richard Eckert looks like the Leo reaction image; like he's thinking 'Oh my God I can't believe they're still buying this shit!'

[-] nepenthes@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

I thought that so much I took a screen to post to comments. I'm glad I found your comment here. His expression is part smug, part guilt, part wainker.

smug/guilty looking wainker

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 17 points 7 months ago

I'll never forgive him for what happened at Black Mesa.

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 8 points 7 months ago

It's not just science, although science plays a role in every field. It's everywhere, and why we've reached market saturation with mediocrity, in every field, every business. Those who would exceed mediocrity are ostracized and othered as if excellence is a bad thing, unless they are willing to compromise in other, not public-facing areas.

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[-] outstanding_bond@mander.xyz 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The thing that gets me is that these people are all really smart. If someone is willing to lie and do math, why not work at an unscrupulous pharma/finance company? They'd make way more money and do way less work. I'd even argue that fraud in the private sector is less unethical - if investors give money to a fraud they deserve to lose it, and regulators take an adversarial stance and have whole orgs (in theory) policing fraud like the SEC and FDA.

It takes a really particular kind of scumbag to seek a position of public trust, make a bunch of trainees financially and professionally dependent on them, accept taxpayer money intended to help cancer patients, then commit fraud.

[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 15 points 7 months ago

Very few people start with big transgressions. Usually stuff escalates.

It's why need systems that don't put humans in situations where bad behaviour is incentivised. Also why we need to be forgiving when someone comes forward with a small transgression, so people don't get stuck in escalating cycles.

I'm sure this guy did some solid research once upon a time.

[-] tburkhol@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

I don't know about this specific case, but it's common for the big name researchers not to do any actual research or play any direct part in generating their images. That's often done by kids - 25 year old grad students, even 20 year old undergrads - or other trainees. Those people may not appreciate how easy it is to detect image manipulation and are still learning what kinds of 'refining' of imagery and datasets is acceptable, while the PI that pays their stipend or sponsors their visa rages at their inability to get an expected outcome or replicate a previous result.

Not saying there aren't people out there just flat-out frauding, but these are group projects with a structure of trust and pressure that can muddy assignment of culpability. Like any committee or corporate action, it can be tough to say that any one individual is the guilty party or which people where just going along with the group.

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[-] FundMECFSResearch 8 points 7 months ago

Oftentimes payed by insurance companies or have other financial intrests

[-] Snowclone@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

Pretty simple reason. Money.

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this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
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