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[-] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 45 points 1 year ago

Every time you help another person, a demon jabs Milton Friedman with a pitchfork.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

Causing him to take a massive shit into Ayn Rand's forced-open mouth.

[-] Emmie@lemmings.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It’s such a convoluted philosophy it’s impossible to even say what it is because it means ten different things for ten different countries. In my country they are weird amalgamation of monarchists, conservatives and ultra-capitalist catholics but in Russia they like fight for lgbt rights.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

No. Actually the philosophy is quite clear. The man who coined the term and was the first libertarian was a revolutionary in the French Revolution. The problem is so many people apply the noun to things that clash with the ideology.

Libertarians are not libertarian. Ideologically Libertarians often tend to be fascistic. But are so hyper self-centered. They do not buy into and will not participate in embracing any group identity.

[-] Emmie@lemmings.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I wish people stayed true to the original definition of words. Politics would be much easier to navigate. But alas who doesn’t do social manipulation these days: We are freedom fighters except we hate lgbt and are pro Catholicism and some even want return of monarchy vote for us!

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The definition hasn't changed. Soviet Russia a Marxist leninist Nation had a party called the Communist party. They were not communist. At least not outside of aspirationally. They were still Marxist leninist. But they rely on people easily being confused between nouns and adjectives

[-] Emmie@lemmings.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Effectively it changes because we live in post truth society. It doesn’t matter anymore what was the original meaning of the word except to some few nerds that no one listens to anyway. That have phd in politics or something equally useless and cringe.

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[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

It’s such a meaningless term it’s impossible to even say what it is

Big "what even IS a racist?" energy 🙄

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't think that's exactly fair, the term did get coopted by right wing anarcho-capitalists, so its had a pretty significant semantic shift from its left wing social anarchist origins.

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

There's still left-libertarians in the world. You just have to specify now that anarcho-capitalists have appropriated the term, rather than pretend that no elaboration can possibly apply.

Having to be more specific when referring to other kinds of libertarians because of definition drift is annoying, sure, but it hardly makes the term meaningless.

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

I agree, but I think its also fair to expect some confusion around the matter.

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[-] EABOD25@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

I don't get why people are so afraid of Libertarians when it comes to social philosophies. Leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. You want me to do something I don't want to do, pay me. Weird how Libertarians get criticized for that when literally everyone has had that mindset with one thing or another in their life

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 41 points 1 year ago

Their policies lead to bad outcomes. "We don't need a fire department and I'm not paying for it" -> "oh shit our houses all burned down".

It also tends to come off as deeply anti social, and not everyone is that way.

[-] EABOD25@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

Your anti social statement is very fair lol.

However what I was trying to say is not necessarily "we don't need a fire department" but moreso "the individual citizen shouldn't be paying for the fire department with their income. Nearly 55% of US citizens make less than $50k a year and the average income per household (in the previous percentage) is around $35k. So why should the individual spend their little bit of hard earned money on taxes when everything else is getting taxed as well?

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 18 points 1 year ago

That sounds like you change the existing progressive taxation system so the first chunk of income isn't taxed at all. That's not really a huge change

https://www.irs.gov/filing/federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets

I think there should be more, harsher, brackets as you go up.

I also think we should probably tax unrealized gains. Or do something about like "I get a loan against untaxed assets" stuff that let the rich enjoy their wealth without paying for it.

But even all of that aside: People should pay their taxes because they benefit from it! Everyone benefits from functional fire departments! And libraries, and roads, and buses, and so on! And since taxes are percentage, the poor people are typically paying less already. (The part where some rich don't technically have "income" should be patched)

I have a little more sympathy for people who are making 50k/year that feel like their tax burden is too high. But people making $200k/year can fuck off about that.

(Also I think a lot of the squeeze now is from rent and food costs being unchecked)

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[-] Bumblefumble@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

In an unchecked anarcho-capitalist market, the economically disadvantaged are even more fucked. No social safety nets, no regulation on companies price fixing, monopolizing, etc. So using taxes as some scary Boogeyman just doesn't make any sense. A strong welfare state is so much better for the little guy.

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

The big difference is economic, not social. The left has a larger overlap with Libertarian social liberties than the right. It’s the concept of economic responsibility to support the most vulnerable members of society that really differentiates the left from Libertarians.

[-] EABOD25@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Trust me. I hate rich Libertarians. They're the problem with it. However, I do believe there's also been political propaganda against Libertariansm

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[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Leave me alone, I'll leave you alone.

Translator: Please go starve elsewhere

Weird how Libertarians get criticized for that when literally everyone has had that mindset with one thing or another in their life

Just because we've all been selfish and shortsighted doesn't make it ok for adults to act like spoiled children every time they have to pay their fair share for living in a civilized society.

people are so afraid of Libertarians when it comes to social philosophies

It's not fear, it's exasperation.

[-] EABOD25@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

It's really sad that you think. How many Libertarians have you ever spoken to in person?

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

It's really sad that you think.

Yeah, libertarians tend to be against that sort of thing 😄

How many Libertarians have you ever spoken to in person?

Too many.

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[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Because Libertarians only ideology is selfishness. They refuse to understand basic concepts that even anarchists and libertarians well understand and acknowledge. Like the fact that sometimes systems need exist. But no matter how well a system it's designed. It cannot be perfectly equitable, and still requires intervention. Or that the non-aggression principle is nothing but a thought terminating cliche

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[-] pyre@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

i guess i gotta help people now. and that's doubly altruistic because of all the children I'm going to save indirectly.

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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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