1048
Self-Regulation
(lemmy.dbzer0.com)
some people died but i got rich. sue me.
Sues you and wins but it only costs the company 5% of their normal monthly profits
And then the company never pays and you have to sue again but you are now too broke and tired.
Alex Jones has entered the chat
Some of you may die, but that's a risk I'm willing to take!
And the US "Supreme" Court: looks great, let's do more of that!
... we regulate ourselves too and nothing has gone wrong with that!
You should see the lines go up though!
The problem with using the Love Canal was that it was the local government that really fucked up.
For the time, Hooker Chemical Company disposed of the chemical waste in a somewhat responsible way; a clay lined canal that they later topped with clay to prevent water infiltration. If the town wasn't dead set in developing the land, we likely would have never heard of Love Canal.
Yeah that's immediately what I thought whem reading it. The company did the right thing, it's the government who wouldn't listen to reason.
The company did the dumping and then sold it off for $1 for a school to be built upon it. They were held liable. They also created other environmental disasters elsewhere. White Lake Michigan, for instance.
Hooker Chemical Company gave no fucks, and should not be given tacit approval or any credit.
Hooker Chemical sold for $1 and a list of conditions because the local government was threatening eminent domain after the company gave several warnings.
And I'm not going to defend Hooker in other locations.
They were forced to sell under threat of eminent domain. That's why they tried to sell it for $1 along with a list of conditions on what it could be used for to highlight the danger. The Government then rejected this offer. Rather than trying to blame some random company just because you think all companies are evil, maybe go and read the history instead.
More importantly it was the 1950s before the Clean Water Act. Where both entities involved existed under the framework of industry self-regulation that is being directly criticized here.
The issue isn't a company or government is responsible: it is that the system of self regulation results in failures with significant collateral damage.
Regulation also binds government, believe it or not.
Sure it does, but you were directly trying to blame the company, and not the government that screwed it up. Stop shifting goalposts.
I established they were held legally liable, which they were, in response to a comment that stated the government was the one who fucked up.
Ain't no zero-sum binary brained scenario.
Second picture should be Bhopal.
Americans would shrug it off as a foreign problem. We're idiots like that.
Unión Carbide. I was very young when that made headlines.
What is an example of something that is not self-regulated that was worked out well?
Is the pharmaceutical industry self-regulated?
What is an example of something that is not self-regulated that was worked out well?
EU food industry works pretty well. Incidences of food-borne disease, contaminated food, etc are very rare, and you can generally trust the label says exactly what's in the food with confidence.
The regulations themselves are very complex, change depending on new evidence, and include all sorts of rule changes for events that impact the food industry.
Don't forget basically all science, most of the actual groundbreaking work is done using public funds; private interests only step and once the underlying theory is already proven.
FUSION ENERGY RESEARCH!
I'M SO FUCKING MAD! We're giving corporations the rights to our research to make PRIVATE power companies so they can charge us whatever the fuck they want....
WE FUNDED THE RESEARCH, MAKE THE FACILITIES GOVERNMENT RUN!
Proven profitable and exploitable
Seat belt regulations saved a lot of lives despite massive objections and many attempts from both drivers and manufacturers to work around the regulation. https://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance
To all the people out there that hate questions so much and downvote people who ask them: What happened to you that made you so angry about people wanting to acquire information?
To all the informative people who answer questions, thank you!
Because we know from long experience that these questions aren't made in good faith.
No, you don't know that. You just assume you know that. You've been so brainwashed that you think anyone who doesn't already know everything you know and have every opinion you have is evil and out to get you. It is OK to learn, it is OK to change your mind, and it is OK to ask questions. The most important thing is not always hearing that you are right.
If I didn't know it before, I do know it after you posted this little rant.
You will be much better off if you listen to my point and don't try to imagine you know everything. There really, truly is nothing wrong with considering other points of view. There is also nothing wrong with people asking questions. You don't need the safety and constant agreement that you think you do.
The legal profession is self-regulated.
No.
Effectively yes. The Sackler family proved that. Regulators let them kill thousands of people. It took the criminal justice system tracking the pills back to have consequences and accountability.
I actually grew up next to the Cuyahoga in the '70s, and it's mind-boggling how disgusting that river was. Used tires and rusted steel chemical barrels everywhere, and the surface covered with a sheen of oil or who knows what the fuck it was. The concept of a beautiful rivers edge was laughable back then, as the river was lined with various plants and factories with big drainage pipes jutting out over the water discharging ... stuff. And this was about 30 miles from the part that actually caught fire (which was in Cleveland). I really don't understand why that river wasn't just on fire all the time.
My parents founded an organization that cleaned the river up (at least the part of it in our town) and turned it into a beautiful park and walking trail. I'm so proud of them for that, but sadly these victories are never permanent.
I work in aerospace regulation and the latest media coverage has been quite upsetting for me. There is a huge difference between delegation (how the aerospace regulator gives approval power to people in companies) and self-regulation, but I'm not clever enough to summarise them in this format. So instead I'd like to share two facts that can summarize the outcome instead.
-
An airliner is a chunk of metal full of people 30,000 ft in sky propelled to near the speed of sound by burning kerosene in a tube. With all of that is safer than driving in your car or going for a swim. That's aerospace regulation at work, and it has always included delegation. It's almost the safest industry there is even when you include Boeing's criminal fraud and attempts to abuse the system.
-
Boeing had to ground their fleet for years and now is being charged with criminal fraud for deceiving the FAA (the aerospace regulatory body in the USA). Self regulated industries rarely face consequences.
I'm not saying it's perfect, and I wish I could explain the process better but I think it's very effective and has a proven track record across the world. Almost all modern countries use the same regulatory framework because it delivers incredible safety at a reasonable (by aerospace standards) cost to the government.
I hope more industries transition to a similar framework. If we had an FAA for finance and environmental protection, I think we could end scam shell companies and illegal pollution in a decade. But it would probably be "big government socialism" so there isn't much hope.
I think the narrative is about how Boeing used to be the gold standard, but with money grabs for years the check is now coming due - hopefully before its too late & there is a crash.
this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2024
1048 points (100.0% liked)
Lefty Memes
4143 readers
243 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, upvoting good contributions and downvoting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,
as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS