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submitted 9 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 133 points 9 months ago

Sent a note to my Senators and Congressman:

"ATF Form 4473 is required for any gun purchase and it has an entire section regarding things that disqualify a purchaser from owning a gun, notably line 21, items c and d:

“c. Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could imprison you for more  than one year, or are you a current member of the military who has been charged with violation(s) of the Uniform Code of Military  Justice and whose charge(s) have been referred to a general court-martial? 

d. Have you ever been convicted in any court, including a military court, of a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?”

Currently, we have, running for President, a person who has just been convicted, qualifying them under line d, and, who is facing 3 other indictments, qualifying them under line c.

If they aren’t qualified to own a gun, and, in fact could be arrested for “felon in possession” should he obtain a gun, how on earth does that allow him to be qualified to lead the armed forces as “Commander in Chief”? Why would he be allowed access to the “nuclear football” which is, really, the ultimate gun?

Can we please get some kind of legislation dealing with this? Either barring convicted felons from the office of the President, or, alternately, highly restricting felonious Presidential access to the military and high order weapons?"

[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 103 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I'm opposed to the idea that being charged with a crime should disqualify someone from office. Simply put, it incentivises putting people in jail for political reasons.

No, Trump should be disqualified for treason and insurrection. Of course, that's not happening either.

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That's why we have a trial by jury of peers.

An executive branch can issue a pardon, legislative branch can create a law making the crime no longer being a crime and impeach judges.

If those things are not enough, then we have a much more serious problem.

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago

Yes, we do have a more serious problem. Numerous federal judges have been appointed by a treasonous insurrectionist who committed election fraud to take office. The jury of peers will be less effective if there is an obviously biased judge like Cannon.

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Judges can't put you in jail if DA doesn't bring charges and a jury won't convict.

Canon is trying to do the reverse, using anything she has at her disposal for the trial to not happen as she knows that this case is pretty much an open shut case.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago

If being a felon bars you from owning a gun, why should a felon be allowed to command all the guns in the US military?

[-] neo@lemy.lol 29 points 9 months ago

To play devil's advocate: You could argue that in this case, the entire nation holds a vote over reinstating the right to own the ultimate gun.

The problem with that is, spin doctoring has gotten too good for this jury and you don't even need the majority to win.

[-] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago

Being a convicted felon, can he even vote for himself now? I'm pretty sure Florida doesn't allow felons to vote.

[-] Nougat@fedia.io 40 points 9 months ago

FL defers to the law in the state where the conviction happened, and NY allows felons to vote as long as they are not incarcerated when they need to vote.

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[-] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 31 points 9 months ago

The thing I'm thankful for is that the fucker can't legally enter Canada right now.

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[-] hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago

Generally, because of his criminal conviction and his intention to run for office, there's a lot of interesting legal questions that will make for new law when we litigate them.

I do like your argument, unfortunately I'm pretty sure most courts will disagree. It's two fold: first of all if you make felons unable to run, you incentivize people to prosecute someone when they wanna run for office. Secondly, this form is pretty straightforward with what possession or acquisition of firearms means. There is not enough wiggle room to stretch that definition to fit the a guy in his role as president being commander in chief over the military. I think no reasonable court would greenlight that argument.

But in general there's gonna be very interesting implications.

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[-] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago

Republican congressmen and women and Republican Senators will just say it's a hoax trial and a corrupt justice system. It's not a sane world right now.

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[-] randon31415@lemmy.world 97 points 9 months ago

These are people who believe in the death penalty because "courts don't make mistakes".

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago

Calvinist Predestination stans when something they don't like happens.

[-] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 9 points 9 months ago

Calvinism - the progenitor of capitalism (according to Max Weber)

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

I don’t need more reason to hate Calvinism

[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

Without Calvinism we never would have gotten Calvin and Hobbes. Still not a good reason to actually practice the theory.

[-] ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 69 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

What possible reason would he have to do that...? If he wins, he gets off scot free. If he loses then he'll claim that he won and is being suppressed for political reasons and then get of scot free.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 19 points 9 months ago

If he were a traditional candidate, the answer is that the party needs to have a candidate who not only can win, but also supports candidates for lower level elections. A traditional candidate would step aside and nominate someone to take their place. Not sure if the GOP convention rules allow it, but they could possibly even direct their delegates to go towards someone else.

Since Trump is a narcissist who doesn't even get why downstream elections are important for building a political base of support, he'll of course ignore this.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

He can’t pardon himself if he wins

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago

In the event he actually gets incarcerated, if he were to win the presidency he could sue claiming being locked up interferes with his constitutional duties as president. I think I know what this Supreme Court would decide on that

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[-] nutsack@lemmy.world 63 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

In other words 51% of independents and 85% of Republicans think he should keep running

[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago

Hey now, there's a 5% section of people who just don't give a shit (yet still answer polls for some reason).

[-] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 51 points 9 months ago

I know it won't happen, but what would happen if Trump dropped out after formally becoming the Republican candidate?

[-] bamboo@lemm.ee 13 points 9 months ago

They’d pick someone else, probably whoever was the #2 candidate or the VP pick (with them choosing a new VP, since the election hasn’t happened yet). The electoral college can pick whoever it wants, so as long as the party has consensus I don’t see it being a huge deal.

[-] PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk 12 points 9 months ago

Nikki Haley stood down her campaign but didn't actually conceed. she's still technically in the running for president. so i imagine it would default to her

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[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

A lot of it depends on timing.

There's a really good fictional take from before Bush/Gore, called "The People's Choice" by Jeff Greenfield of all people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People%27s_Choice_(novel)

Candidate wins the election, but dies before the electoral college votes.

So... the VP guy wins? Yeah, no. He wasn't the candidate and can't assume the role of President because he was never affirmed as Vice President.

So... the other candidate wins? Yeah, no. They didn't get enough electoral college votes to be President.

So it all comes down to faithful and faithless electors.

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[-] InternetUser2012@midwest.social 45 points 9 months ago

If he or the GOP had any integrity whatsoever, he would. They don't though, which is really ironic since ya know, law and order, patriots, merica, ect. The republican party is a joke.

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[-] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 40 points 9 months ago

This election will be won at the margins. Shit like this matters. Our task is to stoke their discontentment.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

Independents will be so important

[-] DogWater@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

So will the extreme left.

They seem to have this idea that holding their vote for Biden hostage over Israel is morally just in spite of a mountain of evidence that tells us violence within this country against minorities, women, and lgbtq folks (which is already openly on the rise) will sky rocket if Trump wins....oh and all the authoritarian fascist stuff that is straight out of a dictator playbook when seizing power with no intent to ever relinquish it.....but nevermind that.

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[-] lemmefixdat4u@lemmy.world 39 points 9 months ago

Trump's conviction isn't going to be the big turning point of this election. What happens after his conviction will. If he continues to spew vitriol about the judge, prosecution, and jury, eventually one of his followers will commit an act of retribution. That puts Trump in a difficult spot, because his core likes this kind of stuff. He will want to show his support, but if he does, it will again show he encourages domestic terrorism. If he does anything other than condemn the attack, his support among moderates will fall away, just like it did after Jan. 6th. If he does condemn the attack, his core may protest, like they did when he changed his opinion on the COVID vaccines.

[-] Zink@programming.dev 27 points 9 months ago

Yeah that would be weird to see Trump forced into awkward rambling doublespeak that doesn’t make sense if you listen to the words.

XD

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[-] Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 34 points 9 months ago

How are those numbers so low. Jesus Christ

[-] Raptor_007@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

Man, you’re right. And here I was thinking “wow, 15% is more than I expected.” What a sad realization that is.

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[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago

I'm acquainted with a few felons who got the maximum sentences allowable for their crimes. Why? Lack of recognizance.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

When your famous, they just let you do it

[-] Veraxus@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

What do they mean by “independents”? Are we talking NPA, AIP, or both?

[-] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 30 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I'm more obsessed with the idea of being a republican this long, and only now changing your mind about 45. The list of things about him which are twice as bad alone is stultifying.

[-] tsonfeir@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago

A lot of people still have trust in the courts. They hear conservative media saying “these are just left wing accusations,” and don’t think he has done anything wrong.

However, now that he has a conviction, a growing number of people are leaving him because they courts are infallible (to them).

I know it’s wishful thinking to think he will get jail time in July, or that he will get any other conviction before November.

But once you’re a felon, you’re a felon. And he’s a felon 34 times.

[-] voluble@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

It's so baffling though. Sincerely believing "these are just left wing accusations" and maga/swamp slogans, maps onto "the judge had a conflict of interest, this was a witch hunt" etc., by the exact same route of illusion.

The only way I can make sense of this, is to assume that we're not really dealing with sincere belief. It's hard to imagine a rational Republican that stood behind the former president through everything since the birth certificate thing, and are now somehow chastened. Maybe they simply think it'll be a bad look for their guy to be wearing an ankle bracelet on inauguration day / in the first 100 days in office, and it will compromise their party's future election chances. A question of 'ick' factor, and not some extension of actual values and beliefs, like we might hope. "Convicted felon" is a soft Dean scream, maybe.

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[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

I know a registered Republican who has never voted for the Republican candidate in the general election.

She says she agrees with the concept of fiscal conservativism, but every candidate she votes for in the primaries always loses to some intolerable asshat. Except she did like McCain, but she liked Obama even better.

Trump pushed her so far as to donate to the Democrats, but she is still registered Republican.

I know another registered Republican who did vote Republican back in the 80s, but at least says he hasn't recently, similar reasons. He stays Republican mainly because he doesn't see any point in bothering to change. Where he lives is die hard red so he knows the Republican primaries are his only chance to influence any candidate as even if he likes a Democrat, they will automatically lose. He votes Democrat in the general, but considers participating in the Republican primaries his best shot at mitigating the bad of the modern Republican party.

[-] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

That's at least within kicking distance of sanity

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

The first one is just delusional. The Dems are the fiscal conservatives. Repubs want to sell off the country to billionaires, foreign or domestic is fine.

The second one, registering for the one primary that matters in a shithole district is the only sane option IMO. The primary is the real election for places like that. It would be foolish to throw a vote away to make a statement the party will never listen to.

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[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago

Independents are people who don’t identify as democrats or republicans.

Many independents are more progressive than mainstream dems. Some aren’t. But we’re a spectrum and it’s stupid to treat us as cohesive.

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[-] ChowJeeBai@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

Hahahaha... When has he ever listen to the opinions of others?

[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 12 points 9 months ago

Oh, all the time when it involves things that aren't centered around him. In those cases he will usually take on the opinion of the last person that he spoke to (that knew how to butter him up first)..

[-] kemsat@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

Forgot to include 100% of democrats

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this post was submitted on 02 Jun 2024
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